It's Official - my '51 OTCA project

[mmmalmberg]

OK the gunnels are off, seats are out, the aft deck is out, all the top canvas tacks are out, the keel screws are out.

The other deck remains for the moment because... It looks like they must have screwed the decks between the inwales before finishing the planking, as a number of the screws are blocked by the planking or in one case by a rib. Is this common and should I feel bad about removing bits of wood from the planking or ribs to accommodate? Actually I've already chiseled bits of the planking judiciously for most of them but thought I'd ask in case I'm missing something obvious.

And I did search first Thanks...

 

[mmmalmberg]

BTW here's all it took to break those pesky diamond screws loose. Then after trying various sockets, found a crescent wrench to be best for turning them out.

 

[monkitoucher]

Yeah, you may need to remove the top row of planking to get at the decks, stems, inner rail, and ribs. It isn't a big deal. You can re-use the planking if you pull the tacks with a tack puller. Some guys sharpen one of the tangs of the puller to get below the tack heads.

Before I remove any planking I'll take a sharpie and draw a few marks from the plank I'm removing across to the neighboring planks. This allows me to accurately put the plank back on by aligning the marks. Some times it's inevitable that you will need to replace a plank or two. The old one can be used as a template for the replacement.

I'd probably have the canvas, keel, and the top planking off before going after the decks, at this point.

Her's a link to my OTCS resto. http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/1922-otca-17-restoration.15911/

 

[mmmalmberg]

OK Thanks!

 

[mmmalmberg]

Stem bumpers, bow stem and keel are off! Last inch of the top end of the forward stem gets progressively softer. Guess I'll be learning some new skills

 

[mmmalmberg]

First look at the planking. I'm amazed how well the whole system has worked. There's no rot anywhere on the canvas except on one side of one of the tips, which is also the only place where any wood is actually rotted. The two canvas sides were not adhered to each other at all in the overlaps, just a thin layer of the bedding compound or filler under the keel and stems, most of which stayed with the wood. The wonderful thing is how well these boats come apart. (I know that's always the easy part of any project

Anyone know how they put those tiny tacks in? Must be a special tool to just push them in. Maybe a push and a little tap.

 

[monkitoucher]

Although you may get away with reusing your decks with simply scarfing in the tips. With that split in the bow deck you may need to replace it. This is a good article for your next steps.

https://canoeguybc.wordpress.com/20...in-an-old-town-otca-wood-canvas-canoe-part-1/
https://canoeguybc.wordpress.com/2019/02/25/how-to-rebuild-a-rotted-end-in-an-old-town-otca-wood-canvas-canoe-̶-part-2/

 

[mmmalmberg]

Thanks!

Regarding the deck split I was imagining possibly doing a repair like they do with a piano soundboard which is to saw out the crack and then glue in a thin strip the width of the cut. -But I'll read up on it!

Do you think that split would be the result of shrinkage of the deck, across its width, constrained by the coaming?


The other deck has bigger issues as it is missing its tip, and somehow the tip of the deck seems 1/4" low relative to the wales. I don't know how I don't have a better picture of that...

 

[monkitoucher]

There is a fair amount of stress on the decks causing the cracks. Putting things back together with the new scarfed rails may make it worse. If it were me, I'd do a blind butterfly inlay on the underside. I would use epoxy for the glue-up. That way it would ideally stabilize the board. I used this method to repair The front seat on my OTCA.
Here's a tutorial.
https://www.wwgoa.com/article/custom-cut-butterfly-joints/#

It's hard to tell what is happening with the stern deck. It may be that rot has set in and that has caused the curve to be off. Here is a post with some good photos of what scarfing the tip looks like. You may need to do more or less what is laid out here.
http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/1924-otca-inwale-tip-taper.15682/#post-79114

I don't know if you got the "This Old Canoe" or the "The Wood and Canvas Canoe" books. These books have a lot of really detailed information on this sort of repair.

 

[mmmalmberg]

Excellent - thanks! Really helpful to see a similar repair. The jointery does not need to be quite as fancy as I tend to imagine. p.s. I have both books on the way

 

[MGC]

Without seeing the deck split here's some peanut gallery commentary....
The canoe is not really super old by wooden canoe standards...old but not really old. The choice of preservation vs restoration is more of a sentimental one than one based upon the canoes historical significance/value. Consequently, I would lean towards replacing the deck/s if they are badly split rather than knitting the damaged one back together. A piece of wood that is prone to splitting may split again in a different place after the repair has been made. Decks are easily fabricated and easily installed. As long as you have the planking off to repair the rails pulling the decks is not much of a task...just a few screws. Pulling the decks is actually necessary in order to properly repair the stem and rail tips. If you don't fancy making a deck you can buy one. Jerry has replacement parts for your boat...
There aren't any rules...you can do the restoration any way that you chose but you might as well fix it so that it lasts another 70 years.

 

[mmmalmberg]

Yes I am totally in the camp of making it good for another 70 or at least giving it my best shot. Below is an image showing the split. Not sure how to predict whether a new deck might also split at some point. Are splits like this common?

For me there are two aspects of preservation. One is sentimental, to be sure. The other is my fight against a general cultural tendency to discard and replace rather than repair and re-use. Of course this is exactly what we're doing restoring canoes in the first place (which is not without sentimentality I'm sure). So maybe a question of degree, finding the preferred point where one decides to replace instead of repair. Certainly if I knew this deck was going to crack again I'd replace it. On the other hand, perhaps it had a weak spot, has revealed it, and once repaired would be the least likely piece of wood to split again. I don't know enough about wood canoes and decks to know, so I'm grateful for your opinion and others expressed.

Looking at the grain, I guess this deck is a slice that goes near the center of the tree and from vertical grain to more of a flat grain and back to vertical so maybe that's a clue (or not) to why it cracked where it did. The first thing I thought is that the wood shrank as it aged but was restrained from that shrinkage by the coaming. But if that was the problem you'd see these cracks on as many canoes as not. I don't see any canoes so I have no idea

 

[mmmalmberg]

In any case I have a bit of time to ponder the deck and perhaps to come to a better understanding. My initial desire to keep as much original wood as I can might soften as I learn more, read the books etc.

Meanwhile here's first look at what was under the canvas.

 

[Dave Osborn]

I’m all for keeping as much original as possible. That said, I would remove the deck and repair it.
I would squirt epoxy in the split and draw it back together with clamps.
I would also figure a way to strengthen the area where the split is. You could chisel a pocket and insert a Dutchman.
That in total wouldn’t take anymore time than building or purchasing a new 20” deck and installing it....probably much less.

 

[MGC]

I’m all for keeping as much original as possible. That said, I would remove the deck and repair it.
I would squirt epoxy in the split and draw it back together with clamps.
I would also figure a way to strengthen the area where the split is. You could chisel a pocket and insert a Dutchman.
That in total wouldn’t take anymore time than building or purchasing a new 20” deck and installing it....probably much less.

Agreed...after seeing the deck I would also try to make a repair. It's in pretty good shape with no rot or damage other than the split. It probably split out from an improperly placed coaming screw.
The point I was making was that there is no harm in replacing damaged wood on one of these boats. Folks tend (myself included) to go to extremes to save the old wood but in the grand scheme it may not always be best option.

 

[mmmalmberg]

Agreed...after seeing the deck I would also try to make a repair. It's in pretty good shape with no rot or damage other than the split. It probably split out from an improperly placed coaming screw.
The point I was making was that there is no harm in replacing damaged wood on one of these boats. Folks tend (myself included) to go to extremes to save the old wood but in the grand scheme it may not always be best option.

Well-learned wisdom I am sure!

 

[mmmalmberg]

I’m all for keeping as much original as possible. That said, I would remove the deck and repair it.
I would squirt epoxy in the split and draw it back together with clamps.
I would also figure a way to strengthen the area where the split is. You could chisel a pocket and insert a Dutchman.
That in total wouldn’t take anymore time than building or purchasing a new 20” deck and installing it....probably much less.

I like the Dutchman/butterfly idea. I bandaged many of my own and my kids' minor wounds with "butterfly stitches" so it rings a good bell

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Just put the dutchman on the under side so you don't see it.

 

[mmmalmberg]

Canoe hide.

 

[mmmalmberg]

In Mike Elliot's "This Old Canoe", pages 41-46 detail the tip construction and restoration of Chestnut and Peterborough canoes. Is this pretty much the same for an OTCA? Looks similar from what's left of mine...

Oh also, if I'm scarfing in just a few inches of new inwales and stem tip, is it worth bending pieces? Seems like it could be at least for the stem.