Unknown Canoe Help - possible circular deck plate/logo

[MGC]

Forgive my ignorance, but is the canoe made with basswood?
Basswood is quite common here in the Northeast and has always been quite available in Canada. Lumber is still quite readily available. Large trees can be harvested and custom sawn. One on my hunting spots is in a grove of very large basswoods.
It is not a wood that grows in the West, so it may be a bit of a challenge for you to source.

 

[Treewater]

It looks like your WT Bush canoe may have paint on top of varnish, as though it were originally varnished and later overpainted. Is it fastened with iron or rather with brass or copper? You're probably aware that lower grade canoes were often iron-fastened and then painted; higher-grade canoes were fastened with brass or copper and then varnished. Anyway, given that the wood looks so nice (doesn't look like paint is embedded in the grain) and Bush canoes are so rare, one option would be to apply two or more coats of varnish and then paint on top of the varnish. This way, if you or someone else were to someday re-restored the canoe, it could again be stripped down to bare wood and restored with a varnish finish.

About seats, these earlier all-wood Canadian canoes often had no seats or only a rear seat that was mounted on cleats. I never thought of the ones with rear seats being work boats, but perhaps. I thought adding a seat would have been an upgrade for a gentleman to more comfortably paddle his lady as she reclined with a backrest and cushions. Just my speculation...

Interesting idea. I have not found iron tacks in the boat. Nothing takes a magnet not even the plated screws. Varnish first for future restoration? Never thought about that. Seems like a good idea. I'm painting because of so much filler. Like I said, I can't match the wood.

 

[Michael Grace]

Varnish first because it will prevent paint from getting into the grain of the wood (once in the grain it can be a nightmare to get out), and a layer of varnish will make it MUCH easier to refinish again in the future. I've been fortunate to find paint over varnish in old canoes, and it strips out beautifully. But canoes that have paint over bare wood - like an otherwise stunning 15' all-wood Lakefield I'm restoring now - are far more problematic. I don't think there's going to be any way to get all the paint out of the Lakefield's interior. The lack of magnet attraction suggests that fasteners are not ferrous, so this canoe was likely varnished originally.

The canoe looks like it might be basswood. These were usually basswood or cedar. Treewater is in Tennessee, and basswood can readily be found at good lumberyards in the south.

 

[Treewater]

About seats, these earlier all-wood Canadian canoes often had no seats or only a rear seat that was mounted on cleats. I never thought of the ones with rear seats being work boats, but perhaps. I thought adding a seat would have been an upgrade for a gentleman to more comfortably paddle his lady as she reclined with a backrest and cushions. Just my speculation...

I'd say you're right again. It struck me that's a strange place for a rear thwart. Either the seats not needed or the thwart. I think the thwart came first. Makes sense. Those French Canadian voyaguers didn't need seats. Someone added that seat. That Bush canoe in the Orillia collection has no rear seat. They also have decks far better than mine. I'm jealous.

 

[Treewater]

Varnish first because it will prevent paint from getting into the grain of the wood (once in the grain it can be a nightmare to get out), and a layer of varnish will make it MUCH easier to refinish again in the future. I've been fortunate to find paint over varnish in old canoes, and it strips out beautifully. But canoes that have paint over bare wood - like an otherwise stunning 15' all-wood Lakefield I'm restoring now - are far more problematic. I don't think there's going to be any way to get all the paint out of the Lakefield's interior. The lack of magnet attraction suggests that fasteners are not ferrous, so this canoe was likely varnished originally.

The canoe looks like it might be basswood. These were usually basswood or cedar. Treewater is in Tennessee, and basswood can readily be found at good lumberyards in the south.

Basswood is the name. I never looked for it here. Yes, this canoe has a lot of basswood. I've never seen that in other canoes. In 1900 there would have been an abundance of big basswood trees around Coldwater, Ontario.

 

[Treewater]

And about the paint. You're right again from what I can tell. I had it outside and stripped using a stripper and water hose. The spots I missed have a brown varnish under the brown paint. What was called "shellac" in the past was clear going on but would turn light brown with age, That's what I see under the brown paint. The basswood is light and soft. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be highly rot resistant.

 

[MGC]

Treewater is in Tennessee, and basswood can readily be found at good lumberyards in the south.

Basswood is also available in most hobby shops, not in large pieces, but in that it is such an easy wood to work, it is always offered.
Ideally wood could be used in place of filler.

 

[Treewater]

Forgive my ignorance, but is the canoe made with basswood?
Basswood is quite common here in the Northeast and has always been quite available in Canada. Lumber is still quite readily available. Large trees can be harvested and custom sawn. One on my hunting spots is in a grove of very large basswoods.
It is not a wood that grows in the West, so it may be a bit of a challenge for you to source.

Yes, I' m finding a whole lot of basswood. More than I expected....I didn't expect any.

 

[Michael Grace]

Don't throw ou that rear seat and its cleats! It may well be from the factory. The Canadian builders of that era did do this from time to time - it is uncommon but not unheard of. And they did it just as yours was done with the semicircular cutouts to fit to the ribs.

Given everything that you're finding in this canoe, consider doing the best restoration possible. It needs a lot but it is very doable with time and patience. Please keep us posted.

 

[Treewater]

Given everything that you're finding in this canoe, consider doing the best restoration possible. It needs a lot but it is very doable with time and patience. Please keep us posted.

Both decks were in pieces. The stems were badly rotted. I had no model to go by. It's not going to be a great restoration. I restore these canoes to use them. After the third portage they start showing wear. I will take your advice and put a clear coat before the brown. I'll use the seat because my knees won't allow much kneeling paddling. I've used local wood for restoration. Some poplar, some oak.
If anyone has a good idea how to repair the split wood please chime in. Photos of repaired ribs are a UFO I did few years ago. It's the only experience I have with narrow ribs. I split 1/2 copper pipe to make splints for the broken ribs. Lots of work but nine in a row and it holds up fine. The broken/split boards I'm tempted to glue.

 

[Treewater]

Nine in a row.

 

[Todd F]

Please keep this dialog going. I inherited a basswood canoe several years ago, will need lots of work. Going to be a while until my skills get to the point I will take it on but seeing your work will be of much help. Glad you are sharing.

 

[Treewater]

That UFO above where I used copper pipe to repair the ribs was canvas covered from the factory much as I could tell. It also had a clean/flat bottom where this Bush canoe has an interior keel (keelson?). Big difference because replacing a rib means a lot of disasembly. I think pulling up the keelson would cause more damage that its worth.
I turned the canoe over and added tacks to the keelson where I could. I cut out and glued a small puncture inserting a piece of cedar. Mind you I've already decided to paint light brown so missmatch of wood and filler will disappear.
The splits in the wide board are an issue. Someone better come up with an idea or I'm going to invent something.

 

[samb]

Have you a copy of Mike Elliott's 'this fancy old canoe'? In it is quite a bit of detail of how I went about sorting a board and batten canoe, including working with lime wood (the UK equivalent of basswood) and replacing boards and repairs to battens and ribs. The pictures in there are all black and white but with the text they explain well. If this is helpful and you need more detail or pictures just ask.

Sam

 

[samb]

Before and after of my B&B showing two methods of dealing with damaged planks.

 

[Treewater]

Hello Samb. No I don't have the book but I'll find it. My hats off to you for that restoration. Looks like you replaced two whole boards. Wow. That's a really beautiful boat. I see you put glue on the smaller splits. I'm doing that as well. Thanks

 

[samb]

I widened the split with a V groove then filled with epoxy.

 

[Treewater]

I widened the split with a V groove then filled with epoxy.

What kind of epoxy? I'm pulling the broken cleats between the ribs. They all have cloth under them.
A cheese cloth. Must be to prevent shifting or leaking.

 

[Michael Grace]

One of the best epoxies you could use today for something like this is West System G-Flex because of its greater flexibility relative to more brittle epoxy formulations.

 

[Michael Grace]

To repair the rotten and broken ribs and battens the best way may be more than you want to take on. They are probably red elm which can be difficult to find in the south but you can have it shipped. It would need to be milled to half-round shape, and ribs steam bent for replacement. Some people only replace half a rib - from the keelson up the the gunwale (no removal of the keelson required). The unfinished basswood planks will readily absorb water, so they can be wetted on the outside, after which they should curl toward the ribs. The fasteners are mostly likely copper nails which can be had in all sizes fairly easily. They are driven through pre-drilled holes and the tips simply bent over on the inside of the rib or batten.