Ready for Restoration

[Avacal]

Hello,
I recently acquired an old canvas canoe and I'm in the process of trying to identifying it. Considering the age of the boat, I will not attempt to sand the interior over lead paint concerns. My best option so far is to get it dipped or try chemical stripping myself. I am open to newer, advanced materials as long as you can't tell. I have all pieces that are missing from the bow. The owner joined the Navy after the attack on Pearl Harbor and his brother attempted to restore the boat but decided it was too much work. Their doesn't appear to be any broken ribs. I would most likely replace the inwales/outwales and decks and use clear expoxy where needed as the ribs near each bow show signs of wear and rot.


This is what I know:

Built: 1922
Length:15'3"
Beam: 34 1/2"
Inwales look like white oak
Outwales look like Ash
Decks are Oak
It has been sitting like this for 70 years (indoors).

 

[Gil Cramer]

Probably a Kennebec, in reasonably good condition.

 

[Benson Gray]

Are there any serial numbers on the inside stems? See http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?791 if you are not sure of where or how to look.

Benson

 

[Avacal]

one of the bow stems is removed but no markings. Using paint stripper to see on the other one.

 

[Avacal]

so....no serial numbers uncovered yet. Stripped paint off in a few spots. Decks are oak, inwales are oak and outwales seem to be ash.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Hello and welcome--

You may already have figured this out, but the decks either have had the innermost-aspect removed or are complete replacements-- otherwise, the canoe would be easier to identify.

The oak/ash combo for the rails seems unusual (to me-- but I am most certainly not an authority).

The canoe has nice lines-- and canoes with this much "torpedo" are usually 17-18 feet.

It pays to be somewhat wary of dates that are placed on canoes, unless there is actual paperwork... your date may be completely accurate, but often the correct identification of a canoe is ignored due to insistence in hanging onto a date.

Kathy

 

[Avacal]

Hi Kathy,
What do you mean "inner most aspect"? Which picture are you referring to ? Your right about the oak/ash combo.....seemed strange to me too. Having the one bow end opened up shows details that make me believe it is all original.

Dave

 

[mdouglass]

Are the rib ends chamferred? They appear to be on the top view photo of the deck.

Mark

 

[Kathryn Klos]

I mean the side of the deck that is "the wide end"-- the one that would be "most interior" to the canoe. The deck is basically a triangle. If the decks are original to the canoe, the side that isn't pointy appears to have had the end cut off-- for instance, if the canoe was a Kennebec, the upper edges of the heart were removed.

 

[Dave Osborn]

Chamfered rib tips and nailed gunwales are Kennebec traits, as are the shape of the outwales. The thing throwing me off is the deck and lack of short rail caps on the bow and stern

 

[Avacal]

I mean the side of the deck that is "the wide end"-- the one that would be "most interior" to the canoe. The deck is basically a triangle. If the decks are original to the canoe, the side that isn't pointy appears to have had the end cut off-- for instance, if the canoe was a Kennebec, the upper edges of the heart were removed.

Ah...I gotcha....on guideboats we call that edge of the deck the "deck circle". I see what you mean though. I wonder if the ends might have had signs of rot?

 

[Avacal]

By golly the tips do appear to be chamferred! It does closely resemble the 1922 Kineo too. Might be getting close to identifying. Also, the decks do look like they were trimmed back and made shorter. I will ask the owner if he might have replaced or trimmed the decks.

Thanks for the help so far!

 

[Avacal]

Just found the numbers on the boat! This is a 1909 Charles River Old Town canoe. I also have the original build sheet too.

Does anyone have pictures,info or know how valuable a boat like this might be? The value of the boat will guide me to the level of detail i will go to during the restoration.

Thanks!

 

[Benson Gray]

The information at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?57 should answer your value question. The serial number range for a 1909 Old Town is shared by many other builders so it would be helpful if you could post the serial number and a picture showing the digits would be particularly useful. There were quite a few Charles River models built so finding images of other examples shouldn't be a problem if you search around a bit.

Benson

 

[Avacal]

thanks for the info! I also found out the gal at old town transposed two of the digits.....it is now a 1910 H.W. /grade CS. and it does have the optional floor grate(which was screwed in with steel screws and some brass).

 

[Avacal]

does anyone know of a resource to get accurate deck patterns and paint schemes?

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

thanks for the info! I also found out the gal at old town transposed two of the digits.....it is now a 1910 H.W. /grade CS.

Trust the earlier posts - this is a Kennebec. This is quite a bit different from a 1910 OT HW. Chamfered rib tops, shape of outwales, attachment of outwales, shape of thwarts, shape of seat frame members, etc. - all characteristic of Kennebec, not of Old Town. If you post the serial number here, someone should be able to find that a canoe in the Kennebec records is a match.

 

[Avacal]

Serial is 16070-15. Interesting if this turns out to be a Kennebec. The old town build sheet does say it should be a 17' boat.......the one I have here is 15'8".

 

[Benson Gray]

The Old Town and Carleton records for serial number 16070 both show 17 foot long canoes. Kennebec issued this serial number twice in 1922. One was a 17 foot long canoe and the other was probably the one you have. This is a 15 foot long Kennebec model shown on page 173 of volume three in the Kennebec ledgers. It was planked by Murray and Roundy on March 18th, 1922. The canvas covering and first filler coat were applied by Tuttle on the same day. Thibodeau applied the second filler coat on April 1st, 1922. It was railed by Thompson on April 19th, 1922. It was shipped on April, 24th 1922 to Rochester, New York.

The scans of these build records can be found by following the links at the attached thumbnail images below. These original Kennebec records are reproduced through the courtesy of the Maine State Museum.

The microfilms and scans of these records were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA). I hope that you will join the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-the-wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://store.wcha.org/WCHA-New-Membership.html to join.

It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe. More information about Kennebec including accurate deck patterns and paint schemes can be found at http://store.wcha.org/The-Historic-...pany-Catalog-Collection-Version-2-CD-ROM.html in the Historic Wood Canoe and Boat Company Catalog Collection. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions. Good luck with the restoration,

Benson

 

[Avacal]

Great work! I still don't know what this boat should look like (originally). I do live in the Rochester area so the ship to info makes a lot of sense. Also, the guy I got it from did say it was a 1922 but that is all he knew. He acquired the boat in 1937 and it spent most of the time on Sodus Bay. I am assuming at this point I have a Kennebec canoe....and the model is also called a Kennebec. So now I would like to know what a "type A" is, what type of would trim should be used, the deck pattern and color/color schemes.

Thanks,
Dave