Joinary around outer stem

[Howard Caplan]

I'm restoring a canoe with outer stem and have to cut and replace rot on the inwales and decks. I will be making outwales, also. I have never really seen or looked closely at a canoe with outer stems.
Detailed pics would be great but my questions are: Do the inwales terminate at the deck tip/inside stem?
Do the outwales feather into the outer stem or to where they would be with no outer stem/inside the outer stem? (is outer a word?)
Is everything the same except I slap and out stem on after all else is complete?
Thanks for any response.
Howard

 

[Greg Nolan]

Howard --

Here are some pictures of my 1931 OT 50-pounder, in the condition I bought it in. The outwales and outer stem were painted, and there was some damage to the stern outwale on one side. Here is a picture of the bow, four of the stern, where the damage gives some extra visibility to the joint, and an overall view.

Hope these help some.

 

[Michael Grace]

Howard,

There are a variety of ways in which the ends were closed up by the variety of canoe makers. There are many prior posts on this subject, and a search should pull up a variety of information. You may decide to use a method that you like for its appearance or structural integrity, or you may wish to make the canoe as it was. If the latter, you need to determine what kind of canoe it is (maker, model). Posting photos of your canoe here, or at least describing it would allow people to post information specific to that type of canoe.

(and yes, "outer" is a word, as in "The spouse replied "One more old boat and I'll knock you into outer space!'")

M

 

[Howard Caplan]

Thanks you two.

The canoe is a 1946 Penn Yan Rainbow - 16'.
While the pics of Gregs boat gave me the idea the heavy yellow paint (btw - I love the yellow but am a bit scared to paint a boat yellow) made it tough to see detail. it looks like the inwales do extend beyond the deck tip but I can't tell if they wrap short of or around the outer stem.
And I have seen pics of this rainbow, both restored and new but not able to catch the detail.
Unless I see the Rainbow's detail, I think I will set up the gunwales as I would with no outer stem and then slap on the outer stem and stem band.

Thanks again!
Howard

 

[Greg Nolan]

Howard -- As I write, the canoe is in Maine, and I am in NY, so I am working from memory now, but I am pretty sure that the inwales do not wrap around the outer stem, but rather come together and butt behind the outer stem.
The outwales continue past the deck to the front of the outer stem; they do not continue or extend past the front of the outer stem, but end just at the (painted) brass stem band.

The first attached picture, I think, shows how one of the undamaged outer wales meets the outer stem.

As to the yellow paint -- it was yellow when I bought it, and a yellower yellow than I cared for. But the paint was cracked, scratched and dinged, and needed repainting, so I repainted with a paler shade of yellow. I did not want to change the color completely, because the inevitable new scratches and dings would be more apparent with a different color when the old yellow showed through. The first picture shows this paler yellow.

Then I got carried away, and decided to put a modified OT #4 design on the canoe, using some paints left over from one of my daughter's school art projects. Still not sure if I like the result, but it's not permanent, because I'll be replacing the canvas in a couple of years, when I make some other repairs (a couple of cracked ribs and broken planks -- and the broken gunwales).

 

[Howard Caplan]

Greg,

Got it!
Outwale detail perfect and seeing this does tell me more about how the inwales have to end.

Nice landing - other then the concrete ramp, the lake looks like a Boundary Waters entrance.

It looks like, if the outstem has to come off later, the most that I would have to do is remove the first two gunwale screws to loosen the outwale enough to get the stem off. I bet this method is fairly standard and unless I see different on a PY Rainbow, this is how I will proceed.
Howard

 

[Michael Grace]

Howard,

I don't have and haven't yet found good images of a Rainbow, but there are a few good pics of Owascos out there. Things are pretty similar to the OT 50#, but for a Penn Yan, see the following links:

http://www.flbm.org/penn_yan_owasco_canoe.htm

http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?t=3018

Inwales and deck tip sit on top of inside stem, and outwales run alongside the outside stem. In the photo in Lew's post, the canoe's stem band is missing, so you can clearly see the arrangement. Some people in the Pacific Northwest chapter of the WCHA restored a Penn Yan a few years ago- also an Owasco if I remember. Maybe you could look them up and ask questions.

Michael

 

[Howard Caplan]

Thanks Michael,

I am on track now. Had to get my sequence of part replacement in order and once I did that, the inwales have nowhere to sit except on the top of the inside stem. Last detail (next spring?) will be to shape the outwales and feather them into the outer stem.
Like I told Denis K. last week, it's a good thing I don't have a customer or a foreman standing over me. Wife is a bit anxious about undone chores but now that I am on track all chores will be completed.

Howard