Canoe identification

[Dan R.]

Hi All,

I recently acquired a 16 foot canoe that was supposedly wood and canvas but is now wood and fiberglass... I am not able to find any identification numbers or manufacturers info. Please take a look and let me know if you have any ideas. I can send more info if needed.

Dimensions,
Length: 16 feet
Width: 35.5 inches
Depth from top of gunwales to top of ribs: 13 inches

Thank you!
Dan R.

 

[Benson Gray]

That is a tough one. The decks might indicate a Thompson but the half ribs without stringers don't. The straight thwarts are often found on home made canoes. The seats have been replaced so that makes it harder to identify. Sorry,

Benson

 

[Dan R.]

Benson,

Bummer... Thanks for looking. Makes it more difficult to decide what to do with her.

This is likely of no value because I can't 100% confirm it is the case. However, the past owner gave me the thwart in this picture and said it was one of the original. The hole pattern lines up but that is about all I can prove.

Dan R.

 

[Benson Gray]

That looks like a more typical thwart. The planking pattern can be an indication if you get the fiberglass off. Good luck,

Benson

 

[Dan R.]

Benson,

After seeing the pictures, do you think it is worth making a go at getting the fiberglass off? I know you said the project would be a much bigger undertaking in a previous post, not sure if seeing pictures would make it more worth while.
I only have $50 and drive time invested in the canoe at this point. It's also new to me so no sentimental attachment.

I have considered leaving it fiberglass and fixing the gunwales, etc. but fear I am going to have reoccurring problems with it if I don't bring it back to canvas. What are your thoughts?

Also, what causes the inside of the planking to be black? Could it have been coated with something?

Dan R.

 

[Dave Osborn]

Fiberglass is often not that big of a deal to remove. Gloves, a heat gun, vice grips, and a wide putt knife are the tools needed.
Heat gun will help in removing residual stuff and clean out the planking seams.

Grab an edge with the vice grips and warm it up with the heat gun. Pull on it and see what happens.

 

[Benson Gray]

what causes the inside of the planking to be black?

There are many possibilities, it may be old paint, old varnish will turn black (as shown at the link below), standing water (as shown at https://forums.wcha.org/attachments/40018/ for example), or a combination of factors. This might be a great chance to try out some new techniques and improve your skills without having to worry about ruining a nice canoe. Chris Merigold did that many years ago and called it "Merigold's Marvel." It provided some great articles in the Wooden Canoe magazine. Most people here would encourage you to "bring it back to canvas." Good luck with the decisions,

Benson

Old Crusty Black Varnish

As many of you know I just completed a rework of a 1910 OT Charles River. One of my most controversial decisions on this hull was to attempt to retain the original blackened varnish inside the hull. I did this for aesthetic reasons (because I loved the way it looked) and also to attempt to...

forums.wcha.org

 

[John Sand]

The canoe in my avatar was W/C, later the canvas was removed (fell off?) and the boat was glassed. Mine is pretty sound and complete, the gunwales were replaced at the same time. If you're committed to originality in your canoe, go ahead and strip it. The canvas, filler, and paint won't be cheap or quick. For an anonymous $50 canoe, I would make quick and dirty repairs and use it. You can always restore it later. You might not even love using it, which would be a shame after spending considerable time and money on it. Whatever you decide, Keep us posted.

 

[Todd F]

Dan, bear with me...here are my thoughts.

About 2.5 years ago I retired. After a year of contemplating the meaning of life and getting the stink eye from the long haired Colonel (My better half) I decided to get a hobby. I had been staring at an "Old Wooden Canoe" on CL for a couple months, like yours it was $50. Having worked around the water for 30 years and being intrigued with what I saw I reached out to the seller. Upon arrival and the revealing by slumping back a rain soaked carpet I saw what to me was an amazing work of art and craftmanship. As the seller droned on I stared at the ribs/planks, gunwales etc and wondered of the workers who built her, the places that had been paddled, and what the possible was to bring the canoe back to life. The only thing I remember that he mentioned was the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association. I was fortunate to receive a canoe from Dan Miller in December at about 3 deg on the Canadian border but he had some hot fresh brewed coffee for us. His workshop, and many others I have seen since, are inspiring. I am building a workshop now, 2 years after my initial start. My initial restoration will be some of the older beat up canoes that are not very unique but will forgive my newness to the craft, I welcome that. I am getting a canoe that was built in 1906 and will donate it to the original organization that bought it. I will also keep some of the more rare canoes but will enjoy each that passes through my hands. In the last couple years, in addition to acquiring 13 canoes to restore, I have met some great and very supportive folks who I know will guide me as I learn to restore and bring the canoes back to life for another 100 years.

So what is my point? Regardless of your resources and experiences give it a shot, step through the door, you will not regret it. Worse case it is $50 lost to an endeavor that does not work out, best case you learn new skills, meet amazing folks, and we all are better for it. Just sayin'

 

[Dan R.]

Thank you all for the great information.

I was about 70% on going at the fiberglass and bringing it back to canvas. You all gave me enough push to go for it. I like the bit about "Merigold's Marvel". I will have to look for the articles and post my own journey. I'll just have to come up with a clever name! It will be a good canoe to learn on. What better way to dip your toes in then with a canoe that will take any love you can show it.

Dave, I read somewhere, likely this forum, that it can be beneficial to score the fiberglass with a razorknife into 4 to 6 inch squares and pull it off in pieces. Have you used this method?

Benson, thank you for the links on blackening of the wood. I will check them out.

John, you expressed one of my concerns as well. It would be unfortunate to go through all the work and then not like paddling the canoe. I'll delicately give it a paddle in it's current state to eliminate that concern before starting on the fiberglass.

Great story Todd, I loved hearing your journey and that you already acquired 13 canoes in such a short time! You have your work cut out for you. As far as the people, I can see what you mean from my first few posts. This seems like a great community and one I should spend more time in.
Regarding history of the canoes, although I do not have a history with this canoe yet, the previous owner did and its sentimental value was evident when we were loading it onto my car. He regaled me of adventures him and his son had on camping expeditions on the Androscoggin and Moose River Bow. As a backpacker turned canoe camper due to little ones, I think I was blinded be the thought of these same journeys with my kids and would have bought the canoe in any shape.

I snapped one more pic to see if this was any indication of manufacturer. It appears to have a skinny piece of wood nailed to the top of the inner gunwales. The outer gunwales are just about gone so unsure if those had the same.

Dan R.

 

[Dave Osborn]

Dan,
I have not tried or heard of scoring the fiberglass. I can’t even think of an effective way to do it.
A utility knife will have a difficult time cutting through. A fine saw might go too deep.
I think you’ll find that it may come off in long sheets for the most part.
I can only think of one canoe out of dozens of glass removals that was much of a problem. For the tough spots, use the heat. For the residual resin on the planks, I suggest the heat gun and a pull type scraper. Do not sand it until the resin is gone.
The glass edges are sharp as hell. Wear gloves.

 

[Dave Osborn]

As for ID, the decks look “Thompsonesque”,
but nothing else looks Thompson. Those traits could have been done away with in previous work. I don’t ever recall seeing a Thompson with closed gunwales. The half ribs are different than Thompson canoes.
Getting a look at the planking pattern will possibly give a hint.
I think Peterborough may have used the Thompson ogee type decks at one point, but I could be wrong.
Check these….

Decks | Wooden Canoe Museum

woodencanoemuseum.org

 

[Worth Gretter]

Dan, I am not sure scoring the fiberglass would work. The problem is that glass is tougher than cedar, so if the knife goes through the glass it can make a mess of the wood. This is where the heat gun comes in – it makes the glass softer than the wood so you can rip it off. I did this on my project canoe. It wasn't fun, but it is definitely do-able.
I think you have an interesting boat and definitely worth restoring. The biggest challenge will be the rotted ends. You may be able to save the decks, perhaps by trimming them just a little on the sides to eliminate the rot. New gunwales, but that is a good investment anyway. And the stems, if they are decent below the tops, just need scarfs.
Keep us all posted!

 

[Dan R.]

Thanks for all the great info. I will go at it with heat and gloves!

Any reason to work on the interior before pulling the fiberglass off or is the fiberglass the first step I should take?

 

[Gil Cramer]

Usually, I try to soak the canoe by submerging it for a few days before using the heat gun. Any polyester resin will likely unbond from the cedar when the cedar planking expands. It will be a pain to remove all of the resin between the planks.

 

[Dave Osborn]

About the only thing you can do while the glass is on is strip the old varnish from the interior. It may even help by containing the chemical from leaking through the planks.

 

[Dave Wermuth]

sinking in the pond for a week helps alot. The water soaks in, the heat gun makes it steam and it comes off easier than it would otherwise. I think it makes the cedar a little more stronger too. And there is less chance it will burn from the heat. Scoring isn't necessary. The glass will rip off in strips without being scored. I've had to do a bunch of them.