Yankee restoration
- Thread starter Skiboy127
- Start date
MGC
Scrapmaker
A couple thoughts. First, I think Michael has illuminated several key points. Hopefully these will be reinforced by reading the books you have purchased.
Next, sistering and half ribs. Ixnay on thatay.....
Sistering makes a "hard" or fixed spot in the hull. That is counter to what you want to accomplish. The hull should be able to move and flex. Done properly, replacing or backside repairing provides a repair that retains the original purpose of the hull. In a newer canoe without real historical significance, I lean towards a replacement. It's pretty easy to knock out a few new ribs and install them. It's actually an enjoyable process. If a crack in the rib can be flexed open in a "standard" canoe, I'd probably replace it.
The backside repair allows the original rib to stay in place, but to do it overlook how much planking you need to disturb in order to do this correctly. Planking joints need to be spread out, not lined up with each other. When you take into consideration existing joints, sometimes this causes you to remove quite long sections of planking. Not that this is a problem, it's just a detail to consider.
Half ribs don't necessary strengthen a hull. They do make it heavier, and they offer some extra protection to the bottom of the boat. I like half ribs in a canoe that gets heavy tripping and poling use. I just do not enjoy the extra weight. I don't know (Benson?) the proportion of canoes with half ribs, but most of mine do not have them. Whatever the case, I would not think of them as a fix to cracked ribs.
Next, sistering and half ribs. Ixnay on thatay.....
Sistering makes a "hard" or fixed spot in the hull. That is counter to what you want to accomplish. The hull should be able to move and flex. Done properly, replacing or backside repairing provides a repair that retains the original purpose of the hull. In a newer canoe without real historical significance, I lean towards a replacement. It's pretty easy to knock out a few new ribs and install them. It's actually an enjoyable process. If a crack in the rib can be flexed open in a "standard" canoe, I'd probably replace it.
The backside repair allows the original rib to stay in place, but to do it overlook how much planking you need to disturb in order to do this correctly. Planking joints need to be spread out, not lined up with each other. When you take into consideration existing joints, sometimes this causes you to remove quite long sections of planking. Not that this is a problem, it's just a detail to consider.
Half ribs don't necessary strengthen a hull. They do make it heavier, and they offer some extra protection to the bottom of the boat. I like half ribs in a canoe that gets heavy tripping and poling use. I just do not enjoy the extra weight. I don't know (Benson?) the proportion of canoes with half ribs, but most of mine do not have them. Whatever the case, I would not think of them as a fix to cracked ribs.
The pie chart at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/options.jpg estimates that about 10% of the Old Towns with options included half ribs (and 60% shipped with no options). See http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ for more details about how that was estimated. Let me know if this doesn't answer the question.
Benson
MGC
Scrapmaker
Thank you Benson. It's always interesting to tie in a few facts.
And then there are the Indian Girls (not Indians, I checked to be sure) and their stable mates (Brown, Wells, SLBC) that all feature half ribs......So when I said that very few of my canoes have them, the exception are these.
Worth Gretter
LOVES Wooden Canoes
Samb is right, those books are full of the info you need.
Also, you asked earlier about supply sources. I would like to add Fairwind Fasteners for bronze screws and ring nails.
Also, you asked earlier about supply sources. I would like to add Fairwind Fasteners for bronze screws and ring nails.
OP
OP
Skiboy127
Curious about Wooden Canoes
Super cool info thanks, looks like the spec sheet that is listed for 1920 says that planking is red cedar, my boat is 1927 but has white cedar planking, did I get lucky or is there another reason for the change?
Your build record shows "WC" on the planking line which stands for red Western Cedar. "MC" as shown at http://forums.wcha.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=825 usually means eastern white Maine Cedar. The record at http://forums.wcha.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=610 shows that it was even spelled out occasionally.
Benson
OP
OP
Skiboy127
Curious about Wooden Canoes
Is old growth red cedar white or blonder than newer? I ask because there are three patches in the planking that are definitely western red but the original planking every where else has no color tone left in it. I’m not sure I can take a knife and find red in the center since it’s so thin. I’m surprised that the exterior under the canvas would have sun bleached as evenly as the in side but I guess so. Thanks for the clarification I definitely read wc as white since that’s what it looked like to me. Red is easier to get her in WI maybe I will have to play around with some bleaching to get the patches to blend in a bit more.
My experience is that aged red and white cedars often look identical in color even though they are starkly different when new. I don't know if this is related to being old growth. Good luck with the project and let me know if you have any other questions.
Benson
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Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
Your canoe appears to have been stripped, perhaps some time ago. In this condition the true finished colors of the cedar (and other woods) don't show at all.
If your canoe was stripped a while ago, it could probably use a good cleaning followed by judicious sanding after the wood is dry. Then wash on some mineral spirits to get a better sense of the color. Before trying to color match new wood it would be best to lay on a couple of coats of thinned varnish for the best sense of what the final appearance will be. Bottom line, you may be very surprised at how much color is there once you get your hull prepared and coated properly.
I have often wondered if the apparently light color of the wood at this stage is the reason why some people completely stain the interiors of wooden canoes (there are other reasons, but I think this reason may be common). To my eye this is sad because stains, especially heavy application of pigment-based stains, can obscure all the glorious natural colors in the wood, colors that will come back beautifully through a thoughtful preparation and finishing process. It is easy to do some tests on scrap to see the outcomes of various treatments.
Just a couple of days ago I met a young lady in a Lowes or Home Depot paint department. She and her husband had built a rough-cut cedar structure for a wedding, and wanted it to appear "old" (whatever that means). They applied the darkest stain they could find and were surprised that the end result was essentially black. I suggested simply applying only a clear coat to a scrap to see the result and then, if needed, start with lighter stains until they got the appearance they wanted. It's easy and cost-effective to test rather than to guess. (I'm not saying you're guessing, Skiboy; just suggesting testing.)
If your canoe was stripped a while ago, it could probably use a good cleaning followed by judicious sanding after the wood is dry. Then wash on some mineral spirits to get a better sense of the color. Before trying to color match new wood it would be best to lay on a couple of coats of thinned varnish for the best sense of what the final appearance will be. Bottom line, you may be very surprised at how much color is there once you get your hull prepared and coated properly.
I have often wondered if the apparently light color of the wood at this stage is the reason why some people completely stain the interiors of wooden canoes (there are other reasons, but I think this reason may be common). To my eye this is sad because stains, especially heavy application of pigment-based stains, can obscure all the glorious natural colors in the wood, colors that will come back beautifully through a thoughtful preparation and finishing process. It is easy to do some tests on scrap to see the outcomes of various treatments.
Just a couple of days ago I met a young lady in a Lowes or Home Depot paint department. She and her husband had built a rough-cut cedar structure for a wedding, and wanted it to appear "old" (whatever that means). They applied the darkest stain they could find and were surprised that the end result was essentially black. I suggested simply applying only a clear coat to a scrap to see the result and then, if needed, start with lighter stains until they got the appearance they wanted. It's easy and cost-effective to test rather than to guess. (I'm not saying you're guessing, Skiboy; just suggesting testing.)
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OP
OP
Skiboy127
Curious about Wooden Canoes
Makes sense I work for a shop that sells reclaimed wood building materials and it always shocks me the effort we go through to “match” wood that is just weathered gray when it is being used for an exterior application in 1-2years it will gray out naturally and look better than any stain blend we come up with
ALCEDO ATTHIS
Curious about Wooden Canoes
my canoe was "paint " with linseed oil , as you can see here
hand sanding in first time , but no result , and to long ... so I think , it's not warnish but old dry linseed oil like lizard skin
so I put soda powder in it , brush , but a little to late , now , I'ts more dark ... so when the gunwale need some color , it's soda powder in water to tinct like all the canoe ... maybe you can try one a same piece of wood to see result
(sorry , I'm a frenchy and school is so far
)
hand sanding in first time , but no result , and to long ... so I think , it's not warnish but old dry linseed oil like lizard skin
so I put soda powder in it , brush , but a little to late , now , I'ts more dark ... so when the gunwale need some color , it's soda powder in water to tinct like all the canoe ... maybe you can try one a same piece of wood to see result
(sorry , I'm a frenchy and school is so far
)
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
Skiboy - Here are a couple of photos you might appreciate. The first shows a 1916 OT Otca being stripped. After stripping, the wood was thoroughly cleaned and then sanded down to P220. In the second photo you can see the color of the sanded hull as the first coat of 1:1 thinned varnish is going on - super light, then rich and colorful. Red cedar planking on white cedar ribs. No varnish yet on the mahogany trim.
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