unknown manufacturer
- Thread starter danray35e
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pklonowski
Unrepentant Canoeist
There should be a Hull ID Number (HIN) on the starboard stern. Take that to http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/mic1.aspx and you should be able to identify the manufacturer. Also, pictures help... Green Royalex canoes with tan interiors were made by a lot of companies.
Todd Bradshaw
Sailmaker
There was a period when a very large percentage of America's early Royalex canoe hulls were made at the Uniroyal plant in Warsaw Indiana. Small canoe companies couldn't afford the machinery to mold their own, but they could drive their truck to Warsaw, buy bare hulls, take them home, trim them out and add "their own" 16' Royalex canoe to their product line-up. The Uniroyal hull was stable, rather slow and had rather fat stems. It was nicknamed the "Warsaw Rocket" in the industry - at least until it got back to the canoe company, where it would be given gunwales, seats, and some sort of trendy Indian-inspired name like the "Princess Pocahontas Love Barge" and sent out the door. It wasn't a great boat, but it wasn't a bad boat and it was very durable.
You could possibly be the owner of a genuine Warsaw Rocket. With that sort of number written in the hull, it could also maybe be an early Old Town "Oltonar" canoe (the name they called their Royalex) - which may have been old enough to precede the modern serial number systems. The style of the gunwales and trim-out will give us the best hints if it has no official serial number.
You could possibly be the owner of a genuine Warsaw Rocket. With that sort of number written in the hull, it could also maybe be an early Old Town "Oltonar" canoe (the name they called their Royalex) - which may have been old enough to precede the modern serial number systems. The style of the gunwales and trim-out will give us the best hints if it has no official serial number.
picture
Here is a picture of it. Bare in mind it has been modified somewhat. Different seats etc.
QUOTE=Todd Bradshaw;63224]There was a period when a very large percentage of America's early Royalex canoe hulls were made at the Uniroyal plant in Warsaw Indiana. Small canoe companies couldn't afford the machinery to mold their own, but they could drive their truck to Warsaw, buy bare hulls, take them home, trim them out and add "their own" 16' Royalex canoe to their product line-up. The Uniroyal hull was stable, rather slow and had rather fat stems. It was nicknamed the "Warsaw Rocket" in the industry - at least until it got back to the canoe company, where it would be given gunwales, seats, and some sort of trendy Indian-inspired name like the "Princess Pocahontas Love Barge" and sent out the door. It wasn't a great boat, but it wasn't a bad boat and it was very durable.
You could possibly be the owner of a genuine Warsaw Rocket. With that sort of number written in the hull, it could also maybe be an early Old Town "Oltonar" canoe (the name they called their Royalex) - which may have been old enough to precede the modern serial number systems. The style of the gunwales and trim-out will give us the best hints if it has no official serial number.[/QUOTE]
Here is a picture of it. Bare in mind it has been modified somewhat. Different seats etc.QUOTE=Todd Bradshaw;63224]There was a period when a very large percentage of America's early Royalex canoe hulls were made at the Uniroyal plant in Warsaw Indiana. Small canoe companies couldn't afford the machinery to mold their own, but they could drive their truck to Warsaw, buy bare hulls, take them home, trim them out and add "their own" 16' Royalex canoe to their product line-up. The Uniroyal hull was stable, rather slow and had rather fat stems. It was nicknamed the "Warsaw Rocket" in the industry - at least until it got back to the canoe company, where it would be given gunwales, seats, and some sort of trendy Indian-inspired name like the "Princess Pocahontas Love Barge" and sent out the door. It wasn't a great boat, but it wasn't a bad boat and it was very durable.
You could possibly be the owner of a genuine Warsaw Rocket. With that sort of number written in the hull, it could also maybe be an early Old Town "Oltonar" canoe (the name they called their Royalex) - which may have been old enough to precede the modern serial number systems. The style of the gunwales and trim-out will give us the best hints if it has no official serial number.[/QUOTE]
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Todd Bradshaw
Sailmaker
Nope, it's not a Warsaw Rocket. It's a more recent hull shape than the Rocket - recent enough that it should have a modern twelve digit hull identification number on the outside stern. The first three of them would be letters indicating the manufacturer. The Hull has that Old Town Penobscot-style, or early Mad River Royalex (including the grab loops) profile, though they weren't the only companies that eventually built that sort of shape. It has an abnormally high number of rivets holding the gunwales on, so the builder was interested in being heavy-duty, or it may have been built specifically for a livery operation. In any case, it should be a pretty good boat in the water.
Well I installed the grab loops. It didn't have them before. I replaced the rivets with stainless screws. I also replaced the old plastic molded seats that were in it. I've searched in vain front, back, inside and out, and still the only numbers were the ones written inside. Its frustrating because I want to put a trolling motor on it, but in order to do that, I have to have it registered in Florida. Can't do that without number, so they can check to see if its stolen.
Also, I modified the black abs ( covers, bow and stern) they were longer , and flimsy, and one had a break/ tear in it.
So I cut off some of the excess, heated, and formed it over plywood to make it rigid. It is a great ride in the water.
So I cut off some of the excess, heated, and formed it over plywood to make it rigid. It is a great ride in the water.
thompsonboatboy
LOVES Wooden Canoes
If was built prior to November 1972 it will NOT have the 12 character US Coast Guard HULL ID.
Andreas
Andreas
Todd Bradshaw
Sailmaker
Nobody anywhere was building Royalex boats with that sort of profile prior to 1972. In fact, the only Royalex canoes on the market that early may have been Indian Brand "Sagamore" models and they had a more typical "guide shape".
thompsonboatboy
LOVES Wooden Canoes
Was Royalex the same thing as Royalite? Thompson Royal-Craft, Inc. of Cortland, NY was making Royalite boats and canoes in the time period 1959 to 1961/62. Crestliner and several other builders were using US Rubber's Royalite to make watercraft at that time period.
Andreas
Andreas
Perhaps we need to discern if it is indeed royalex. As I said in my original post royalex? This I can tell you. It has seen lots of use. The areas of wear are where you would expect them to be. So where it is worn , it is black , and as I said tan on inside, and green outside. Is that royalex?
The outside colored layers are vinyl. Underneath is a thin layer which is often black ABS. And in the middle is the usually white layer which 'foams' during vacuum forming. The flat ABS-containing sheets could be manufactured in varying thicknesses and different numbers of layers, depending on the application. If you see a foamed middle layer then it is almost certainly some type of "ABS" hull. Tom McCloud
Todd Bradshaw
Sailmaker
"Royalite" is a solid plastic sheet of an ABS /PVC alloy. It can be molded when heated. The big challenges when making boats with it would be the sheet being overly flexible to make a decent hull from without other structure (adding several molded-in mini-keels down the bottom is one common way to help control this problem) and the fact that ABS has a pretty poor UV lifespan. Paint is the best fix for that.
"Royalex" as Mccloud said has a vinyl skin inside and outside as an abrasion and UV barrier (your green and tan) then layers of ABS for strength under the vinyl skins (usually gray or black) sandwiching its foam core (usually tan). The sheets could be ordered specifically reinforced with extra ABS layers built-in for areas of the hull that would need more strength. This helped to keep the weight down, making the hull tougher where it needed to be, and less reinforced up high where it just needed to keep water out.
"Royalex" as Mccloud said has a vinyl skin inside and outside as an abrasion and UV barrier (your green and tan) then layers of ABS for strength under the vinyl skins (usually gray or black) sandwiching its foam core (usually tan). The sheets could be ordered specifically reinforced with extra ABS layers built-in for areas of the hull that would need more strength. This helped to keep the weight down, making the hull tougher where it needed to be, and less reinforced up high where it just needed to keep water out.
Bart Hauthaway used to joke that Royalite canoes were great if you were only planning to use them for night paddling.
Benson
Jill Laidlaw.
Curious about Wooden Canoes
This is an older conversation but you might be interested in this note:
In 1959 the US Rubber Company, which later became Uniroyal Corporation, obtained a patent for a new polymer multi-laminate of ABS and vinyl which they called Royalex. The same year Thompson Royal-Craft introduced a canoe made of expanded Royalite material which was essentially the same as US Rubber’s Royalex. Those boats were heavy and did not sell well, although John Berry bought one and tried it out on whitewater. US Rubber originally envisioned Royalex for use in the automotive industry but cheaper materials that were easier to manufacture captured that market.
I own an aqua blue one, but the wood has rotted away, and I am looking for someone else who has one who might be able to give me sizes for the wooden parts.
In 1959 the US Rubber Company, which later became Uniroyal Corporation, obtained a patent for a new polymer multi-laminate of ABS and vinyl which they called Royalex. The same year Thompson Royal-Craft introduced a canoe made of expanded Royalite material which was essentially the same as US Rubber’s Royalex. Those boats were heavy and did not sell well, although John Berry bought one and tried it out on whitewater. US Rubber originally envisioned Royalex for use in the automotive industry but cheaper materials that were easier to manufacture captured that market.
I own an aqua blue one, but the wood has rotted away, and I am looking for someone else who has one who might be able to give me sizes for the wooden parts.
This is a very small forum and most participants read all new messages, regardless if they are new threads or replies to old ones. Multiple postings with the same question don't seem to get much additional response. This group is focused on wooden canoes so a better option might be to search for a forum focused on old plastic canoes and post the question there.
Benson
Last edited:
MGC
Scrapmaker
Benson, right on queue, you hit the nail on the head.
To my eye, it appears that Jill has what she needs in order to fabricate replacement parts if that is the goal. Whether or not these parts are duplicates of the original parts or functional replacements is (in my opinion) not particularly important but I may not be adequately appreciative of the collectability of these canoes. There are not a lot of moving parts in one of these canoes, so a few quick measurements should be enough to start the process.
Some options for available parts were mentioned here;
To my eye, it appears that Jill has what she needs in order to fabricate replacement parts if that is the goal. Whether or not these parts are duplicates of the original parts or functional replacements is (in my opinion) not particularly important but I may not be adequately appreciative of the collectability of these canoes. There are not a lot of moving parts in one of these canoes, so a few quick measurements should be enough to start the process.
Some options for available parts were mentioned here;
I replaced all the wood parts on one of these Thompson Royalite canoes many years ago. I didn't take notes (sadly and all too commonly). It probably wouldn't take much to come up with reasonable bits, though.
It was an interesting project on a reasonably historic canoe. A heavy SOB as I recall...
It was an interesting project on a reasonably historic canoe. A heavy SOB as I recall...
Todd Bradshaw
Sailmaker
You can get kits for replacing old wooden gunwales with Mad River style ones (including a kit for one style that comes in easily shipped shorter sections) or aluminum gunwales from these guys. As long as you have a few C-clamps, installation is pretty easy.
northwestcanoe.com
Northwest Canoe Company, Inc.
Whether you like to Do It Yourself or prefer professionals do the work, WE ARE HERE TO HELP?
northwestcanoe.com
