Rustoleum Paint?

Mud Bug

Mud Bug

Hand made things are better
I know paint's been talked about a lot here, and I've searched and read and searched some more but haven't found an answer to my question: is common 'ol Rustoleum oil paint good for a canoe? I'm recanvassing my Otca and don't wanna put something on it that I'll regret.

I painted my Chestnut with Rustoleum Hunter Green. It scratches, but since it's a stock color it's easy to touch up. I have to say, the scratches are more from the way I use it than the paint's fault. Our rivers around these parts are shallow and cluttered with deadfalls. That means easy touch up is important, but I don't know if a better paint would scratch less.

Please tell me your experiences, recommendations and whatnot.

Thanks.

Joel
 
I know that lots of folks have used Rustoleum and thought it to be acceptable. I don’t know if there are any paints that are scratch proof. If you hit a stone or branch it’s going to scratch.
There have been occasions when I inadvertently put a minor scratch on a canoe waiting for customer pick up, much to my dismay. For those I’ve rubbed a little Penetrol on them and the blend in just fine.
As a side note, I’ve recently used Interlux Toplac Plus a couple times because their Brightsides product was discontinued. I’ve got to say I’m impressed with the application and the flow of the paint, and the gloss it provides.
 
I must say, I have never used Rustoleum paint on a hull. I have used it on lot's of other things though and from that experience, I think it dries a bit "soft".
Having said that, I'm talking about the run of the mill product that Mud Bug is referring to, not to Rustoleum Topside. Until this thread, I never realized that was something they offer. Has anyone compared their base paint to the Topside?
 
Good point Dan. Shellac touches up quickly and it slips along nicely in the water. I wish I had it on a few more of my canoes.
 
Shellac? I didn't think shellac was water proof. Is there a marine version? Exterior version? Can it be brushed over the Rustoleum or whatever? Does it add gloss?

I used a "French Polish" on a revolver grip when I was a kid: 50/50 shellac and linseed oil added to a rag which was then rubbed on the wood until it was hard and shiny, then repeat with another spot. Is that kinda what we're talking here?

(Okay, quit with the endless questions. Mud.)
 
I use Zinser. Pick whatever color you like. I use the amber. You may also mix your own.
This is not a marine shellac. .
Shellac has been used as a bottom side finish on working canoes for a very long time. If you look at the canoes that Rollin Thurlow and Jerry Stelmok paddle, you will see shellacked bottoms.
The reason for shellac is that it is easy to apply and maintain and unless you gouge the filler, easy to touch up. It's not without fault. Even if the canoe just sits for a few years, the shellac seems to need touch up. I tend to shellac the canoe annually if it's getting used a lot and otherwise, not at all until I am getting ready for a trip. It's such a perfect thing to use. You can literally have the bottom done in a few hours and almost immediately use the boat.
To put it on, mark your waterline and mask it. Paint the rest of the hull and then shellack the bottom. Two or three coats is a good starting point. Try to do as much in one shot as you can since it can be tricky to even out overlaps.
1722088656698.jpeg

1722089147712.jpeg
 
The shellac bottom canoes that I’ve restored or seen had the shellac applied directly to the filler. Several coats.
Can shellac be effective if it is applied over paint?
 
The shellac wants to be the 3/lb cut shellac, sometimes called "orange" or "Amber" shellac by different manufacturers.
You do not want to use the more common "clear" shellac. Once the clear shellac gets wet it turns a milky white and becomes very soft.
The 3lb shellac can be put directly over the filler but it can equally be applied over most paints. The shellac is not clear but more of a simi-clear orange that you can see the color underneath. It does seem to turn funny colors when put over colored paints so the basic filler gray seems to be what most people use. The shellac does not give the even smooth look like most finish paints do and it dries super fast. Its not a paint and does not act like paint and does not look like paint, so it takes a bit of getting use to if you never used it before. Clean up is with denature alcohol which will ruin any paint it touches so shellac runs down onto the paint is real trouble!
 
Isn't shellac made of mostly dead bugs? Or is that an old husband's tale?

This shellac bit is new to me. Never heard of it never nowhere any time before. So where haven't I been? Sounds tricksy too with the fast drying and the overlap problem and the ruining paint it runs onto and the unsmooth it gives. "Slather on paint. Wipe off runs. Dry. Scrape off runs I missed. Put in water" is more the process I'm used to.

And MGC, just how do you mark the waterline before the canoe goes in the water? And it'll be different with different people sitting in it or if I bring my goat. (Then it's all over the place as he reaches for the bushes.) Does shellac not work above the waterline? And now that I think about it, how do you mark the waterline when the canoe IS in the water? How does anybody mark the waterline? Paddle through algae and hope it sticks? Really polluted water? A lake of stew and of whiskey too and you paddle all around them in your big canoe? Wait a minute. You fellas havin some fun with me? :)

I like the locomotive, MGC. Looks like it was sittin there restin and not comin atcha. Prolly a good thing with that canoe over your head.
 
Wow, that's something. Locomotives out in the woods. It's a wonder they escaped the scrap drives for the war. That's about the same time the logging killed of our grayling here in Michigan. Guess it was all over the place. Thanks for the link, Benson.
 
Ok ,ok, so back to Mud Bug's original question. A few months ago Worth Gretter sent me links to two articles dealing with applying Dacron to canoes instead of canvas. In the one titled APPLYING DACRON TO A CANOE it said the following:

"The best protection from UV damage is an aluminum - filled paint (Rust Oleum). The aluminum flakes in the
paint reflect UV rays and provide an effective barrier that protects the fabric. Three coats are probably enough."

BTW... Just did my 2nd Dacron canoe covering. I like it. I'll post it when I'm done.
 
A couple things....
First, Howie, what is this concern about UV damage to paint? How much direct sunlight does a properly stored wood and canvas canoe actually get? Except when they are sitting on the roof of a car or turned over on the shore after a day on the water, not much I'd say. I would not make a paint choice based upon that. But that's me. Call me skeptical. I'm not saying not to use Rust oleum, just not for that reason.
MudBug, Rollin, who has helped to answer some of the shellac questions, is who showed me how to shellac my bottom.
I put the canoe right-side up on a perfectly smooth floor, attach a pencil to a rolling dolly, set the pencil to the height I want and then roll the dolly and pencil around the canoe to mark the line. Then I mask up and shellac. You should be able to guess at the approximate waterline by eyeballing it. It does not need to be precise. A rule of thumb (I suppose) would be that the shellac would not be visible when you are under way.
The idea is to protect the bottom, so if you are getting up on the sides, you are off the mark.
 
Mike: My understanding is that while Dacron will last a hell of a long time as it does not rot, it can degrade with exposure to UV light. Not sure how much UV makes it through any paint, but I suppose having aluminum flakes stopping UV is a good thing. Mind you, I'm just quoting what I read. But I've painted my 2 Dacron covered canoes with traditional oil based marine paints.
 
Thanks MGC. That sounds more precise than paddling through a lake of stew. I'm leaning towards paint at the moment, but I'll store your information somewhere inside head for future withdrawal. I still am unclear though if shellac can be used over paint.

So Howie, what is the "traditional oil based marine paint" you're using? Have you used Rustoleum yourself? And about dacron: is it noticeably lighter than canvass when you actually lift the canoe? I mean, I know it's lighter, but there's more to the canoe than canvass. I've already ordered the canvass, but I'm curious.

I recently watched a video of a fellow mixing standard Rustoleum to get different colours. Seems sensible, since more-or-less primaries are available. If I used a measured mixture, say, 1 part almond to 4 parts royal blue, I could touch up down the road fairly easily. Any thoughts?
 
I can't comment on working with Rustoleum paint, but the previous owner of my first wood/canvas canoe repainted with Almond before listing the canoe for sale. It has held up well to several trips in the Adirondacks with the inevitable brushes with mud, grass, branches in the water, and (horrors) occasionally contacting a rocky shoreline here and there! I would have no hesitation in using it if the color is one you're content with.

Shown here on Mud Pond, St. Regis Canoe Area, Adirondacks, NY

tempImageLN73eV.png
 
MudBug: As to how much Dacron saves on weight...

I hope to finish up on a 16' 'Long Deck' Veazie later this week, so I can't weigh it yet. Plus when I got it it had been fiberglassed, so I won't have a good before/after weight reference. However if someone out there could weigh their 16ft 'Long Deck' Morris we'd have a good comparison.

However, the 1st canoe I Dacron'ed (a few months ago) was a 13ft Trembly. Trembley's came covered with Verilite - a vinyl covered canvas that was touted to be a lighter weight alternative to a traditional filled canvas. It weighed 55lbs with the Verilite. After I finished with the Dacron it weighed 50lbs. However I don't know what it would have weighed had it been covered with canvas... But I did restore a 13ft OT 50 Pounder a few years ago. It ended up weighing 65lbs, but I had replaced all 4 rails with ash which is heavier than spruce and added an extra thwart... so let's say a 13ft 50 Pounder would typically weigh 62lbs. So let's assume that my 13ft Trembly would have weighed 62lbs with traditional canvas. If so then the Decron saved 12lbs. If we were to scale that up to a 16ft canoe which might weigh 72lbs(?) Dacron might save 14 to 15 lbs. Good enough for me!
 
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