my newly aquired old town 113850 18
- Thread starter jamie
- Start date
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
Hi Jamie--
Old Town 113850 is an 18 foot AA (top) grade Otca model canoe that was completed May 1934-July 1936. It has open mahogany gunwales, mahogany decks, thwarts, and seat frames, outside stems and a keel and was originally painted dark green. It was shipped to No. Chelmsfort, MA, on July 7, 1938. It's possible that the length of time between finishing the canoe in 1936 and eventual shipping in 1938 is due to the fact that this would have been an expensive canoe for someone during the Great Depression--- it's interesting to put such things into historical context. The scan of this record is attached below-- click on it to get a larger image.
This scan and several hundred thousand others were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/ot_records/ if you want more details. I hope that you and anyone else reading this will join or renew membership in the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://www.wcha.org/join.php to renew.
If this description doesn't match your canoe, we can try again. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. We love seeing pictures too.
Kathy
Old Town 113850 is an 18 foot AA (top) grade Otca model canoe that was completed May 1934-July 1936. It has open mahogany gunwales, mahogany decks, thwarts, and seat frames, outside stems and a keel and was originally painted dark green. It was shipped to No. Chelmsfort, MA, on July 7, 1938. It's possible that the length of time between finishing the canoe in 1936 and eventual shipping in 1938 is due to the fact that this would have been an expensive canoe for someone during the Great Depression--- it's interesting to put such things into historical context. The scan of this record is attached below-- click on it to get a larger image.
This scan and several hundred thousand others were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/ot_records/ if you want more details. I hope that you and anyone else reading this will join or renew membership in the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://www.wcha.org/join.php to renew.
If this description doesn't match your canoe, we can try again. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. We love seeing pictures too.
Kathy
Attachments
newly aquired
Thank you Kathryn for your help thats awesome. Im wondering if you can tell me if Old Town only issued boats to dealers or did they ship direct to customers. In the case of my canoe it was shipped to Otis Wright. Im wondering if he was a dealer, do your records show multiple canoes going to him? Or was it just a private sale, the reason is Im a chelmsford guy and im tryin to locate family of canoe for history.
Also whats a good source for parts? cane seats/fasteners/decals etc.
Were all the steam bent frames ash?
And I think I have an original paddle, its made with a laminated pc. thru the part where it flares out from the handle to the blade. Did Old Town make their own paddles? Thank you again, jamie
Thank you Kathryn for your help thats awesome. Im wondering if you can tell me if Old Town only issued boats to dealers or did they ship direct to customers. In the case of my canoe it was shipped to Otis Wright. Im wondering if he was a dealer, do your records show multiple canoes going to him? Or was it just a private sale, the reason is Im a chelmsford guy and im tryin to locate family of canoe for history.
Also whats a good source for parts? cane seats/fasteners/decals etc.
Were all the steam bent frames ash?
And I think I have an original paddle, its made with a laminated pc. thru the part where it flares out from the handle to the blade. Did Old Town make their own paddles? Thank you again, jamie
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
Hi Jamie,
Old Town sold directly to the consumer, and my guess is that Otis Wright wasn't a dealer. It would be very cool to talk with the family and maybe get pictures of the canoe when it was first purchased.
Does the canoe need new seat frames, or only the cane part? If it needs new frames, most people restoring canoes build them themselves, using the old seat or another from the same era as a template (you can always find someone in the group here who has a canoe of the same vintage-- especially if it's an Old Town!). If it's only the cane that needs replacing, you can replace the cane yourself. Your canoe probably has hand-caned seats, although it was shipped about the time Old Town switched to sheet cane so I can't be sure. Hand caning is done through holes in the frame, and sheet cane is machine-woven, and is held in place with a spline.
Use the "search" function above and type in "cane" for a recent discussion of seat caning. Ask for help if you are stumped. Replacing cane isn't heavy-duty woodworking, as replacing a D-shaped outwale may be! Don't let any of this overwhelm you, because you can post about it here in Forums.
One mistake some people make is to remove a seat because the cane is broken and replace the entire seat with a new one. Huge mistake, for a number of reasons--- especially if the original seat is mahogany, as in your case.
Fasteners--- post here about your needs... check eBay... someone will jump in and say where they found what you need. You can also check the main page of this website for "builders and suppliers".... and check the list of WCHA chapters to see if you live near a chapter. You may live a few miles from another member.
Old Town decals are available through the WCHA Store.
I doubt if there's any ash on your canoe. It's AA grade, which means the trim is all mahogany-- the rails are mahogany, the thwarts are mahogany and the seat frames are mahogany. The hull of nearly all wood-canvas canoes (by any builder) is cedar--- on yours, the planking is red cedar and the ribs are white cedar.
I believe Old Town did make their own paddles--- if you post a picture, someone may be able to tell you if it's likely to be an Old Town paddle.
A good reference for anyone new to wood/canvas canoes is Stelmok and Thurlow's "The Wood and Canvas Canoe."
I hope this helps--
Kathy
Old Town sold directly to the consumer, and my guess is that Otis Wright wasn't a dealer. It would be very cool to talk with the family and maybe get pictures of the canoe when it was first purchased.
Does the canoe need new seat frames, or only the cane part? If it needs new frames, most people restoring canoes build them themselves, using the old seat or another from the same era as a template (you can always find someone in the group here who has a canoe of the same vintage-- especially if it's an Old Town!). If it's only the cane that needs replacing, you can replace the cane yourself. Your canoe probably has hand-caned seats, although it was shipped about the time Old Town switched to sheet cane so I can't be sure. Hand caning is done through holes in the frame, and sheet cane is machine-woven, and is held in place with a spline.
Use the "search" function above and type in "cane" for a recent discussion of seat caning. Ask for help if you are stumped. Replacing cane isn't heavy-duty woodworking, as replacing a D-shaped outwale may be! Don't let any of this overwhelm you, because you can post about it here in Forums.
One mistake some people make is to remove a seat because the cane is broken and replace the entire seat with a new one. Huge mistake, for a number of reasons--- especially if the original seat is mahogany, as in your case.
Fasteners--- post here about your needs... check eBay... someone will jump in and say where they found what you need. You can also check the main page of this website for "builders and suppliers".... and check the list of WCHA chapters to see if you live near a chapter. You may live a few miles from another member.
Old Town decals are available through the WCHA Store.
I doubt if there's any ash on your canoe. It's AA grade, which means the trim is all mahogany-- the rails are mahogany, the thwarts are mahogany and the seat frames are mahogany. The hull of nearly all wood-canvas canoes (by any builder) is cedar--- on yours, the planking is red cedar and the ribs are white cedar.
I believe Old Town did make their own paddles--- if you post a picture, someone may be able to tell you if it's likely to be an Old Town paddle.
A good reference for anyone new to wood/canvas canoes is Stelmok and Thurlow's "The Wood and Canvas Canoe."
I hope this helps--
Kathy
Norumbegas
Jamie:
There is a very active chapter of the WCHA in your backyard - the Norumbega Chapter. We often have workshop sessions including building, canvassing etc. when members are working on canoes. Paddle sessions when the water is not solid. We have winter meeting in Feb. There is a great deal of experience and assistance in the neighborhood.
Jamie:
There is a very active chapter of the WCHA in your backyard - the Norumbega Chapter. We often have workshop sessions including building, canvassing etc. when members are working on canoes. Paddle sessions when the water is not solid. We have winter meeting in Feb. There is a great deal of experience and assistance in the neighborhood.
newly aquired old town
Hi Kathy,
Wow I guess you helped thanks soo much! please keep it coming anything you can tell me is great.
Im not afraid of the woodworking but im not familiar with "canoes" and how they were built. I restore antique and classic mahogany runabouts, such as chris-crafts,garwoods etc. from the 20s & 30s been doin it for 25 years so I can handle the woodwork, but this a different animal if you know what I mean. Kathy you've been soo helpful, thanks again. Question, and I know there are so many variables but where does my canoe stand in terms of desirable/collectable/rare/value and is it worth doin? can this canoe fetch a good price?
thanks again,
jamie
Hi Kathy,
Wow I guess you helped thanks soo much! please keep it coming anything you can tell me is great.
Im not afraid of the woodworking but im not familiar with "canoes" and how they were built. I restore antique and classic mahogany runabouts, such as chris-crafts,garwoods etc. from the 20s & 30s been doin it for 25 years so I can handle the woodwork, but this a different animal if you know what I mean. Kathy you've been soo helpful, thanks again. Question, and I know there are so many variables but where does my canoe stand in terms of desirable/collectable/rare/value and is it worth doin? can this canoe fetch a good price?
thanks again,
jamie
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
Hi Jamie,
If you don't already have a copy of Stelmok and Thurlow's "The Wood and Canvas Canoe", that's a great place to start. Restoring a canoe should be easier for you than for some, because of your experience--- and you probably have the necessary tools. Becoming involved with the Norumbega Chapter would be a great thing--- lots of good people to paddle with, once your canoe is water-worthy. Lots of "brains to pick" regarding your canoe.
"Value" is maybe the most commonly asked question on this website, and there's a good discussion here: http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?t=57. I tell folks who are looking at eBay prices to see what something actually sells for rather than what the seller asks.
When it comes to Old Town canoes, there is a lot of variance in "value"... OT has been around for over 100 years and produced several standard models and some unique types... in different grades, and in different decades that were influenced by materials shortages and design changes. Maybe for every person who only wants a pre-WWII canoe there is one who wants a more recent version... canoes are rather like furniture or anything else we choose to acquire: it comes down to "taste" in some cases. I love high-Victorian furniture and also Shaker.... I love tricked-out courting canoes and also simple Gerrishes.
While 1930s Old Towns may not be "rare" in the sense that any Gerrish is rare, it is a pre WWII Old Town wood-canvas Otca and they aren't made exactly like yours anymore. And yours is trimmed in mahogany.
In general (and especially in this economy) if you paid someone to restore your canoe, that's probably about what you could sell it for-- if it wasn't AA grade, it might not go for the cost of a complete restoration. So, it's best to put your own work into this nice canoe and enjoy it--- add a lot of happy memories: that's where the true value is.
Kathy
If you don't already have a copy of Stelmok and Thurlow's "The Wood and Canvas Canoe", that's a great place to start. Restoring a canoe should be easier for you than for some, because of your experience--- and you probably have the necessary tools. Becoming involved with the Norumbega Chapter would be a great thing--- lots of good people to paddle with, once your canoe is water-worthy. Lots of "brains to pick" regarding your canoe.
"Value" is maybe the most commonly asked question on this website, and there's a good discussion here: http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?t=57. I tell folks who are looking at eBay prices to see what something actually sells for rather than what the seller asks.
When it comes to Old Town canoes, there is a lot of variance in "value"... OT has been around for over 100 years and produced several standard models and some unique types... in different grades, and in different decades that were influenced by materials shortages and design changes. Maybe for every person who only wants a pre-WWII canoe there is one who wants a more recent version... canoes are rather like furniture or anything else we choose to acquire: it comes down to "taste" in some cases. I love high-Victorian furniture and also Shaker.... I love tricked-out courting canoes and also simple Gerrishes.
While 1930s Old Towns may not be "rare" in the sense that any Gerrish is rare, it is a pre WWII Old Town wood-canvas Otca and they aren't made exactly like yours anymore. And yours is trimmed in mahogany.
In general (and especially in this economy) if you paid someone to restore your canoe, that's probably about what you could sell it for-- if it wasn't AA grade, it might not go for the cost of a complete restoration. So, it's best to put your own work into this nice canoe and enjoy it--- add a lot of happy memories: that's where the true value is.
Kathy
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
info from the catalog
Hi Jamie,
I'll attach a couple pages from the 1938 Old Town catalog, showing cost of your canoe and the shipping information given to buyers at that time. Sometimes a build record will say "via such-n-such railway", but yours doesn't. I believe shipment was by rail.
Images posted below are from "The Complete Old Town Canoe Company Catalog Collection, 1901- 1993", available on CD from http://www.wcha.org/catalog/ and http://www.dragonflycanoe.com/cdrom.htm on the web.
Kathy
Hi Jamie,
I'll attach a couple pages from the 1938 Old Town catalog, showing cost of your canoe and the shipping information given to buyers at that time. Sometimes a build record will say "via such-n-such railway", but yours doesn't. I believe shipment was by rail.
Images posted below are from "The Complete Old Town Canoe Company Catalog Collection, 1901- 1993", available on CD from http://www.wcha.org/catalog/ and http://www.dragonflycanoe.com/cdrom.htm on the web.
Kathy
