HIN Number
- Thread starter zutefisk
- Start date
Just about everything you need to know about HINs can be found here...
http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/pdfs/BSC70.pdf
http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/pdfs/BSC70.pdf
Dan Lindberg
Ex Wood Hoarder
Zute,
Before you too carried away with this,
a couple questions,
1st - are you a pro builder selling canoes for money? If so, then yes, you need to figure out where and how you will put the numbers.
BUT, if you are a hobbiest........,
2ed - determine just how concerned the state you live in is about the Coast Guard numbers. If your state DNR (or equivalent) actively enforces the CG reg, you still need to figure out where and how you will put on the numbers.
But, if they (your state) doesn't enforce it, then you have a decision to make.
FWIW, here in MN, they don't currently enforce it, (the future is unknown) and only care that you register it, pay your money, and put on the ugly sticker. To register a boat/canoe, you just have to fill out the paper work, they will accept any S/N or even no S/N.
Dan
Before you too carried away with this,
a couple questions,
1st - are you a pro builder selling canoes for money? If so, then yes, you need to figure out where and how you will put the numbers.
BUT, if you are a hobbiest........,
2ed - determine just how concerned the state you live in is about the Coast Guard numbers. If your state DNR (or equivalent) actively enforces the CG reg, you still need to figure out where and how you will put on the numbers.
But, if they (your state) doesn't enforce it, then you have a decision to make.
FWIW, here in MN, they don't currently enforce it, (the future is unknown) and only care that you register it, pay your money, and put on the ugly sticker. To register a boat/canoe, you just have to fill out the paper work, they will accept any S/N or even no S/N.
Dan
Wetweasel, I think you are confusing State Registration (which not all states require of canoes) with HIN.The US Coast Guard requires that vessels manufactured or imported into the US (including home-built boats) have an HIN. Canada has a similar regulation.
As to where to mount it on a canvas canoe, none of the usual spots really meet the USCG criteria. When I go back to building new canvas canoes, I will argue with my local representative that the stem, the traditional place to mark a canvas canoe with a SN, is also the best place for the HIN. I don't know what they will say. Zutefisk, you can call the Coast Guard and try to get an answer before I get around to it.... I have not heard of any repurcusions for not putting a HIN on a boat, so probably however you do it, as long as it is in the spirit intended, will score points.
As to where to mount it on a canvas canoe, none of the usual spots really meet the USCG criteria. When I go back to building new canvas canoes, I will argue with my local representative that the stem, the traditional place to mark a canvas canoe with a SN, is also the best place for the HIN. I don't know what they will say. Zutefisk, you can call the Coast Guard and try to get an answer before I get around to it.... I have not heard of any repurcusions for not putting a HIN on a boat, so probably however you do it, as long as it is in the spirit intended, will score points.
Thanks everyone. I'm definitely not a pro - just a backyard hobbiest and potential importer.
Ran across a canoe in BC and started to look into what I would have to do to get it into the US.
Reading the HIN regulations got me curious because there really is no place on a wood and canvas canoe that would comply with the letter of the regs.
Ran across a canoe in BC and started to look into what I would have to do to get it into the US.
Reading the HIN regulations got me curious because there really is no place on a wood and canvas canoe that would comply with the letter of the regs.
Ric Altfather
WCHA #4035
I built a kayak and thought that I did not need an HIN number to get registration here in Ohio...we put numbers on everything here! Anyway, I was wrong and learned the hard way...$100 fine. The HIN inspection and number assignment was free and took about 1/2 hour. The inspector showed me where the number plates should go on the outside. All the way to the rear under the gunwale on the right side as you sit in it...or as the nautical term goes, on the "starboard" side at the stern. The second plate can be placed anywhere you want on the inside...preferably out of sight. They are self adhesive so you don't have to worry about screws. The really hard part is after you spend hour upon hour finishing the canoe, you have to stick that @%&*$ thing on the fresh finish. What they are really looking for is that you have one and you have made an attempt to locate it properly because the instructions really don't cover hand powered craft.
All the best,
Ric Altfather
All the best,
Ric Altfather
Dan Lindberg
Ex Wood Hoarder
Ric,
There is someplace worse then MN??
Sorry to hear of your troubles, just curious, who imposed the fine, the state or CG?
And to restate, fine out what your state requires.
Though if you're talking about an existing craft, and even more, an old one, is there any problem? I don't know bringing it across the border. Anybody have experience buying and bringing a canoe from Canada to the US?
Dan
There is someplace worse then MN??
Sorry to hear of your troubles, just curious, who imposed the fine, the state or CG?
And to restate, fine out what your state requires.
Though if you're talking about an existing craft, and even more, an old one, is there any problem? I don't know bringing it across the border. Anybody have experience buying and bringing a canoe from Canada to the US?
Dan
Ric Altfather
WCHA #4035
State of Ohio
Dan,
Actually, that was my second fine, the first was $75. If the craft is older than 1986, I believe, then you need the HIN inspection. If you build one, you need the HIN inspection. I recently came by a 1932 sailing craft and they are requiring an inspection and a HIN number because the original builder did not SN the craft. In other words, unless it's a new craft with a SN they require an HIN. The purpose is not bad but the plate is a pressure sensitive tag that can be peeled off and the one that needs to be indescriminately placed inside is a joke. Where else do you hide a plate in a W/C canoe...under the deck or gunwale. After spending 10-15 hours or more, finishing the craft, it really is an injustice to stick this plate on that finish. Truth be known, if it gets peeled off all you have to do is touch up the finish and there you go. The instructions say that it leaves a mark that can be traced...go figure. The State of Ohio did come up with an "alternative" registration for hand powered only craft that we do not have to display the OH-XXXX-XX number. We only have a 4 X 6 sticker that can be mounted inside the canoe and on the deck behind the cockpit on a kayak. And...that will cost you another $5 and cannot be obtained locally, you have to send to the State capitol and wait 3-4 weeks.
By the way, on the $75 fine I had the registration renewal in my car but not on the boat, they were being well, you know...holes! It was a last minute trip with good friends, one of the last good days of fall, I had the registration but not the sticker...he even chased us 7 miles to give me the lecture and ticket.
There is a lot of good paddling water here but you had better be registered. The registration does go to new and upkeep of launch sites but I see more of that for the power boats than hand powered craft.
Thanks, I feel better now!
Ric Altfather
Dan,
Actually, that was my second fine, the first was $75. If the craft is older than 1986, I believe, then you need the HIN inspection. If you build one, you need the HIN inspection. I recently came by a 1932 sailing craft and they are requiring an inspection and a HIN number because the original builder did not SN the craft. In other words, unless it's a new craft with a SN they require an HIN. The purpose is not bad but the plate is a pressure sensitive tag that can be peeled off and the one that needs to be indescriminately placed inside is a joke. Where else do you hide a plate in a W/C canoe...under the deck or gunwale. After spending 10-15 hours or more, finishing the craft, it really is an injustice to stick this plate on that finish. Truth be known, if it gets peeled off all you have to do is touch up the finish and there you go. The instructions say that it leaves a mark that can be traced...go figure. The State of Ohio did come up with an "alternative" registration for hand powered only craft that we do not have to display the OH-XXXX-XX number. We only have a 4 X 6 sticker that can be mounted inside the canoe and on the deck behind the cockpit on a kayak. And...that will cost you another $5 and cannot be obtained locally, you have to send to the State capitol and wait 3-4 weeks.
By the way, on the $75 fine I had the registration renewal in my car but not on the boat, they were being well, you know...holes! It was a last minute trip with good friends, one of the last good days of fall, I had the registration but not the sticker...he even chased us 7 miles to give me the lecture and ticket.
There is a lot of good paddling water here but you had better be registered. The registration does go to new and upkeep of launch sites but I see more of that for the power boats than hand powered craft.
Thanks, I feel better now!
Ric Altfather
Dan Lindberg
Ex Wood Hoarder
Hmm,
Ohio INSPECTS the craft before issueing the Coast Guard number???
Wow.
Yes, here in MN, watercraft have to be registered/licensed to be used, but at least to date, the DNR hasn't required a S/N or CG HIN to issue one, just a bit of info and some $$.
We are required to display the 3x3 sticker on the outside and the 3" numbers if motorized.
Dan
Ohio INSPECTS the craft before issueing the Coast Guard number???
Wow.
Yes, here in MN, watercraft have to be registered/licensed to be used, but at least to date, the DNR hasn't required a S/N or CG HIN to issue one, just a bit of info and some $$.
We are required to display the 3x3 sticker on the outside and the 3" numbers if motorized.
Dan
Ric Altfather
WCHA #4035
In this respect, I hate to say Ohio is ahead of you! On the cedar/canvas, I put the decal on lexan, drill a couple of holes and use nylon ties to hang from the gunwales inside the canoe...dead center. That way, when not in the state or showing off, I can cut them off and replace later or just hang something on it.
Ohio has tapped in on a real resource here on the North Coast. There are 40,000+ registered hand powered craft. For a three year registration it's $15.00 and if you want the Alternative registration it's another $5.00...do the math!
It really is a travesty!
Ric
Ohio has tapped in on a real resource here on the North Coast. There are 40,000+ registered hand powered craft. For a three year registration it's $15.00 and if you want the Alternative registration it's another $5.00...do the math!
It really is a travesty!
Ric
Dave Wermuth
Who hid my paddle?
Michigander chimes in
Here we are lucky. But we Did have registration in Michigan. The law was passed with no one really knowing about it. When we did find out we organized and demonstrated and all that. Got the thing turned back. Michigan is currently in economic decline, hitched to the auto industry. I would not be surprised to see this registration thing come back. So, please don't mention it to anyone. It'll be our secret.
Here we are lucky. But we Did have registration in Michigan. The law was passed with no one really knowing about it. When we did find out we organized and demonstrated and all that. Got the thing turned back. Michigan is currently in economic decline, hitched to the auto industry. I would not be surprised to see this registration thing come back. So, please don't mention it to anyone. It'll be our secret.
You guys are still getting the Coast Guard's HIN mixed up with the state registration. A HIN is required of all manufactured and imported boats, and does not cost one single penny, ever. If you are paying an annual fee, that is state registration, an entirely different (and sometimes sore) subject.
Dan Lindberg
Ex Wood Hoarder
Dan,
Yes, you are correct, but at least so far to date, here in MN, nobody, either the MN DNR or the CG, enforces the CG regulation, and sence the state issues (I believe) the CG number, that means for canoes there really isn't much incentive to get one.
With that said, the above comments apply mainly to our inland lakes and rivers/streams, which are in general, not Coast Guard patroled. My understanding is that they do patrol the border waters, so there one might need the CG HIN number.
Actually a long standing joke is to ask/require the CG to patrol the BW border, I don't know if they would ever do it though.
And a comment about the stickers. We do have the/an option to attach the stickers to a removeable plack that can be hung from the rails in the specified location during use and removed during other times. This however is only for craft made prior to July 1959 and used as "collector" craft. Any newer W/C would have to have the stickers applied in the normal fashion, and even old W/C if it is used on a regular basis.
Dan
Yes, you are correct, but at least so far to date, here in MN, nobody, either the MN DNR or the CG, enforces the CG regulation, and sence the state issues (I believe) the CG number, that means for canoes there really isn't much incentive to get one.
With that said, the above comments apply mainly to our inland lakes and rivers/streams, which are in general, not Coast Guard patroled. My understanding is that they do patrol the border waters, so there one might need the CG HIN number.
Actually a long standing joke is to ask/require the CG to patrol the BW border, I don't know if they would ever do it though.
And a comment about the stickers. We do have the/an option to attach the stickers to a removeable plack that can be hung from the rails in the specified location during use and removed during other times. This however is only for craft made prior to July 1959 and used as "collector" craft. Any newer W/C would have to have the stickers applied in the normal fashion, and even old W/C if it is used on a regular basis.
Dan
Ric Altfather
WCHA #4035
Dan Miller said:
I believe that I indicated further up the line that the HIN inspection and number were free...any indication of fees is for the State registration but you cannot get the State registration without the HIN...I cannot remember the last time I saw a Coast Guard cutter on the inland rivers?
Ric
Ah, but they've visited my shop twice in the last four years, and one of the things they were checking was HIN compliance...
Dan Lindberg
Ex Wood Hoarder
Dan,
Yup, a disadvantage of being a Pro, they watch you guys close(?) for complience.
I should have said "nobody enforces the reg on inland water".
That was why in the past 10 years or so, Joe Seliga only sold "home builts", with instructions to the lucky buyers to register them as such and not as Seligas.
The CG personal were harassing him, stopping in every few years to "inspect" him. He basically told them that he had been using his own "sequence" for long before they were born and if it was good enough for Old Town it was good enough for him, and that lately he only built for "family". I think they finally gave up on him a couple years before he passed on. He probably built in the range of 50 canoes during this time.
Dan
Yup, a disadvantage of being a Pro, they watch you guys close(?) for complience.
I should have said "nobody enforces the reg on inland water".
That was why in the past 10 years or so, Joe Seliga only sold "home builts", with instructions to the lucky buyers to register them as such and not as Seligas.
The CG personal were harassing him, stopping in every few years to "inspect" him. He basically told them that he had been using his own "sequence" for long before they were born and if it was good enough for Old Town it was good enough for him, and that lately he only built for "family". I think they finally gave up on him a couple years before he passed on. He probably built in the range of 50 canoes during this time.
Dan
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