Canoe ID

[Dan R.]

Hi All,
I'm wondering if folks can identify this canoe. It needs a lot of love but will be nice restored. The serial number is written so that the 17 is close to the end of the stem.

Thanks!
Dan R.

 

[Dan Miller]

That is a Robertson. The outline font on the stamps is diagnostic. Look for the "wavy" stamp on the ends of the thwarts.

 

[Dan R.]

Will check the thwarts. Thank you!
Is it safe to assume 1933 build? It does measure 17 feet.

 

[Benson Gray]

Is it safe to assume 1933 build?

There has been much discussion about this in the past. It may be the year or the width but no records are known to be available for confirmation. How wide is this canoe?

Benson

 

[Dan R.]

Interesting. It could be width. I took a quick measurement in roughly the center and it was 32/33. I’d have to measure again to confirm.
Is the thinking that the first number, 3132, would be the number in order of which the canoes were built?

 

[Benson Gray]

Is the thinking that the first number, 3132, would be the number in order of which the canoes were built?

Probably, but we don't know when the sequence started, if they started with one, or how many may have been skipped along the way. The link below has more about this with other builders where some records are available. The lowest and highest known serial numbers with this font are shown below. The "A" or inverted "V" prefix is another mystery.

Benson

Thread 'Serial Number Madness'

Dec 7, 2022

Many canoes and boats have serial numbers but this summary might help explain how confusing these can be. It appears that Morris, Old Town, and Carleton all started assigning serial numbers around 1900. Kennebec started in 1909, Joe Seliga in 1938, Shell Lake in 1940, White around 1946, the U.S. Coast Guard mandated that all canoes sold in the U.S.A. have hull identification numbers in 1972, and Canada implemented a similar system in 1981. Various builders from the Charles River area, Morris, Veazie, Penn Yan, Penobscot, Canadian, Chestnut, Peterborough, Thompson, and other...

• Benson Gray
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Serial Number Search

• 

 

[Michael Grace]

Hazard a guess as to the number in the middle photo above? What is known about this canoe? Has it been stripped to get a clearer look at the number? What is considered the "lowest known" number, and what is considered the "highest known"?

 

[Dan Miller]

There were a lot of changes taking place at the Robertson factory going into the 1930s.

Charles B. Robertson (J. R. Robertson's nephew) was president; he died December 3, 1931.
J. R. Robertson returned as president. He died July 15, 1935.
Clarence Mather (formerly owner his own boatbuilding firm, and at Toppan Boat and Engine Co,) was foreman between 1934 and 1938.
Arnold Laskey assumed ownership of Robertson in 1937, and operated to at least 1955. He died in 1959.

Whether any of these changes would explain the use of this serial number style is not possible to say at this time.

 

[Benson Gray]

Hazard a guess as to the number in the middle photo above? What is known about this canoe? Has it been stripped to get a clearer look at the number? What is considered the "lowest known" number, and what is considered the "highest known"?

The middle image above was cleaned up to show serial number 498 35 16 as displayed at the Assembly auction in July. It was originally thought to be number 198. Chuck Cossaboom and the Norumbega chapter may have more details since they restored it.

Determining Robertson's "lowest known" and "highest known" serial numbers involves a lot of guesses since a broad variety of different fonts and formats were used. My assumption is that the length digits, width/year digits, and any leading characters can be omitted to get the base serial number. This makes the 57 in the first image from my previous message above the lowest. Similar canoes with this format include 154, 185, and 199. The lowest without a leading character is 302 as shown below.

The highest in the outline font is 3188 as shown in the previous message. An even wider range of likely Robertson serial numbers without the outline font includes a low of 81 and a high of 5998.

It seems likely that the management changes that Dan kindly listed probably had some influence on this variety of formats. The only solid documentation available is the receipt below which shows that a canoe sold in 1908 may have had serial number 1088. This canoe might not have survived since it hasn't shown up yet.

Please let me know if you have any better ideas or more information to share. Thanks,

Benson

 

[Michael Grace]

Hi Benson. I was referring to your post above that said the "lowest and highest known serial numbers with this font are shown below." Maybe for the lowest you were referring to A57 33 16 (shown above)? The highest number I am aware of in this 3-part "outline" font is the same as you - 3188 35 16. The lowest I'm aware of in the "A" series is A21 33 16. The lowest with out the "A" that I'm aware of is 10 33 16.

 

[Benson Gray]

The lowest I'm aware of in the "A" series is A21 33 16. The lowest with out the "A" that I'm aware of is 10 33 16.

This is great news. Can you share pictures of these serial numbers and any deck tags? I have been collecting pictures of things like this as you probably know. Thanks,

Benson

 

[Michael Grace]

I will see what I have for these. I'm collecting this info as well, and try to keep get as much info on each one as possible.