Paul Varadian
Curious about Wooden Canoes
Hello Friends, I have to transport a 13 ft. birch bark canoe on my rooftop for 500 miles. Can anyone recommend the best cover, obviously water and windproof, at highway speeds Thanks in advance, Paul (MA)
Best canoe cover for cartop transport?
- Thread starter Paul Varadian
- Start date
My usual recommendation for a canoe cover is shown in the link below but I'm less familar with what would be best for a birch bark canoe.
Benson
redleafdesigns.com
Benson
The Original Bag Lady Canoe Cover – RedLeaf Designs
Bag Lady premium, double-knit polyester canoe covers have been the standard for over 42 years and have protected the life and appearance of thousands of canoes in that time. Bag Lady covers protect the hull of your canoe from UV damage, fading, bugs, scratches, stone chips, and more when you're...
redleafdesigns.com
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
HI Paul - You're asking for a lot. I'm unaware of a commercially-made, off-the-shelf or custom, canoe cover that is fully waterproof, and I'm not sure what wind-proof means. The Bag Lady covers protect the outside of the canoe but they are completely open on the inside so necessarily they are neither waterproof nor water resistant. I have some custom-made covers that encapsulate the entire canoe, but I can't image that they are not waterproof either. One option would be to simply watch the weather forecast and use a weather radar app to choose a time when you can travel dry. A canoe cover will help shield the canoe from wind. I hate putting more plastic out there but another option that some of us sometimes use is to wrap the canoe thoroughly using a large roll of plastic cling wrap (found at Lowes, Home Depot, etc.). The wrapping needs to be tight and you should point the canoe on the vehicle so that the wrapping overlaps don't catch the wind.
Hope this helps - Michael
Hope this helps - Michael
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Gil Cramer
The wooden canoe Shop, Inc.
Based upon the requirements of both windproof and waterproof, a Uhaul trailer is probably your best bet.
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Paul Varadian
Curious about Wooden Canoes
Michael, thank you, "shrink wrapping" it may be the way to go, much appreciated and I will keep you abreast! Paul
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Paul Varadian
Curious about Wooden Canoes
Thanks Gil, I am trying to avoid costs and it is crossing in and out of Canada as well.... thanks!
MGC
Scrapmaker
Folks, it's a canoe. Water is not something I'd be very worried about.
I would be very concerned about wind and buffeting around from passing trucks etc. Even a well secured canoe gets blasted hard with hurricane like winds when you car top. A somewhat delicate bark canoe could get damaged.
I like the idea of wrapping it and putting it inside a van or U-Haul is probably the safest bet.
I would be very concerned about wind and buffeting around from passing trucks etc. Even a well secured canoe gets blasted hard with hurricane like winds when you car top. A somewhat delicate bark canoe could get damaged.
I like the idea of wrapping it and putting it inside a van or U-Haul is probably the safest bet.
Another consideration with transporting bark canoes is heat. The pitch on the seams tends to run when left in the sun on the top of a car for any extended period. This is one reason why an air conditioned and humidity controlled trailer may be your best option (even though that may be thoroughly impractical). Good luck,
Benson
Benson
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Paul Varadian
Curious about Wooden Canoes
Thanks Benson, another consideration to take into account and thanks. The trailer options are expensive given the 1000 mile round trip not to mention the border crossing. It rules out most rentals. Your advice may make this a nighttime return trip.
Actually, the Redleaf/Bag Lady covers are made with two different materials. The WeatherMax 3D fabric is stated to be water-resistant, whatever that may mean. However, like MGC, I'm not sure why there would be a concern about some rain on a canoe.
If canoes are securely affixed atop a vehicle, normal wind alone won't move or harm them even at highway speeds. I've probably car-topped and van-topped more than 20 canoes more than 100,000 miles over the last 50 years—up to five canoes at once—and none has ever been damaged. These have been composite, wood and plastic canoes, but admittedly none was a birch bark. Now if the wind kicks up dust or pebbles, or if you are driving behind vehicles on a dirt road, then airborne projectiles could ding the canoes. In such conditions, a cover might help reduce damage from such mini- or micro-impacts.
I've read that birch bark canoes carried on car-top racks should not be strapped over the hull as other canoes are. Instead, the thwarts should be attached to the racks. This might be difficult with a completely encircling canoe cover.
You should be very secure if you lash the thwarts to the the rack bars as securely as possible in as many places as possible; pad the bars; block lateral movement with commercially available or DIY load stops on the rack bars; and block fore-aft movement with backward V snotter lines at the bow and stern, as shown in the following video.
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
A birchbark canoe isn't a plastic tub than can be hosed and scrubbed out after being exposed to filthy road grime for hundreds of miles. The complex raw cedar interior will get saturated with all that gross road nastiness rather than gently speckled with pure little droplets of rainwater. Whether a fabric cover is water repellant or not is utterly pointless with respect to road grime when the entire interior of the canoe is open to the elements.
If this were me, I wouldn't be nearly as concerned about "micro-impacts" as about the buffeting effects of wind and about strap pressure on a birchbark hull. A birchbark is held together under tension with ribs pressure fitted to sheathing and the junction of the gunwales/bark, and if it's an old birchbark, parts may be loose and even coming apart. There was just such a canoe at Assembly this year, and it required considerable care to transport. Certainly never transport one like the red plastic canoe in the video above, with racks spanning only a small portion of the hull, and bow and stern tie-downs pulling on the ends of the hull - this is a recipe for disaster.
Give Gil's suggestion of a truck serious consideration, regardless of cost, especially if this is an historic or an old, loose birchbark canoe. If I were to attempt rooftop transport, I'd wrap it well, position racks to span 2/3 to 3/4 of the canoe's length, use gunwale brackets to secure the canoe laterally, make minimal holes in the covering so that thwarts could be strapped down to the racks, and strap over the top gently for added security (don't crank down those straps and risk damage from excess rib end pressure). And I'd time it for travel on a dry and cooler day (or night).
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Gary
Canoe Grampa
Hi Paul, Mike's suggestion of wrapping the canoe is plastic wrap may be your best option. I brought an old birch bark canoe back here to my home in Canada from Delaware, a 10 hour drive using this product and it traveled well with no issues. It had multiple broken pieces of bark and an end missing but the canoe arrived safely no less for the wear.
The other nice part of using the clear wrap is that the canoe is visible at the border. I almost had to pay taxes should the canoe have been declared an antiquity by border customs officials. But because they could see the canoe and I had a signed letter from the previous owner declaring its worth at less than $100 I was let off. Just a thought as you mentioned crossing the US - Canadian border. You don't want to have to unwrap and re-wrap a tarp for example each time.
Best of luck, Gary
The other nice part of using the clear wrap is that the canoe is visible at the border. I almost had to pay taxes should the canoe have been declared an antiquity by border customs officials. But because they could see the canoe and I had a signed letter from the previous owner declaring its worth at less than $100 I was let off. Just a thought as you mentioned crossing the US - Canadian border. You don't want to have to unwrap and re-wrap a tarp for example each time.
Best of luck, Gary
MGC
Scrapmaker
I car topped the bark canoe we owned and got caught in the rain with it. It did not do a thing to it.
If it is a real old one (as mine was) water can actually helps to get some of the old dust and grime cleaned off of it. If it hasn't been in the water for a very long time and stored in a really dry place, the brown side of the bark and the cedar might water spot if you allow it to get unevenly wet. The wood is unvarnished.
Again, I'd be far more concerned about securing on the roof than worrying about getting it wet. Plastic wrap it and be done with it. These are not a hull that you can reef down to secure the load.
If it is a real old one (as mine was) water can actually helps to get some of the old dust and grime cleaned off of it. If it hasn't been in the water for a very long time and stored in a really dry place, the brown side of the bark and the cedar might water spot if you allow it to get unevenly wet. The wood is unvarnished.
Again, I'd be far more concerned about securing on the roof than worrying about getting it wet. Plastic wrap it and be done with it. These are not a hull that you can reef down to secure the load.
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Paul Varadian
Curious about Wooden Canoes
Hello Gary, the canoe is new as below, Algonquin style. I am very grateful for everyone's advice. I plan to lash the thwarts as per Michael's advice and plastic wrap the canoe. I thought of also wrapping in moving blankets (duct taped) before strapping it down, maybe after US Customs. My understanding was that canoes are exempt from duty tax, do you have information on this? It is a Canada to USA trip. Thanks, Paul
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I've never experienced road grime inside any canoe I've ever car topped, and if wind buffeting stresses are a structural concern, then any sort of car topping perhaps should be avoided whether or not a canoe cover is employed. The custom Bag Lady canoe cover I have for one of my canoes leaves very little of the canoe open underneath, but I never use the cover for car topping.
If you do go the car topping route, the points of agreement seem to be that: a plastic wrap is probably the least expensive, most waterproof covering; primary strap/rope attachment should be to the thwarts; the rack bars ideally should be spaced under the thwarts and fairly far apart; load stops or gunwale brackets should be used to prevent lateral movement; and any backup belly straps or bow/stern V lines should be gently tensioned.
To clarify, the purpose of the video was only to illustrate the optimal direction of bow/stern snotter V lines to prevent fore-aft shifting (\___/ rather than /___\ ). The video was not meant to illustrate the optimal bar spacing for a thwart-attached birch bark canoe or the amount of ratcheting force to put on the straps or lines, which obviously can differ from canoe to canoe and vehicle to vehicle. The down-pulling leverage of bow/stern lines, if used, can be reduced if they are attached to quarter thwarts or seats, if available.
If a canoe is fragile, like an ultra lightweight racing hull, a skin-on-frame—and I'll presume a birch bark—it can be car topped without bow/stern lines, and be properly immobilized, if the rack bar spacing is sufficiently wide and lateral load blocking is used. I traveled 10,000 miles over seven weeks in one trip around North America with my 22 foot, 30 lb. racing outrigger canoe in this manner, using foam cradles on the rack bars, without any problems.
Good luck. Show us some pictures of your final solution, and tell us for future reference how it worked and what, if anything, you'd do differently.
If you do go the car topping route, the points of agreement seem to be that: a plastic wrap is probably the least expensive, most waterproof covering; primary strap/rope attachment should be to the thwarts; the rack bars ideally should be spaced under the thwarts and fairly far apart; load stops or gunwale brackets should be used to prevent lateral movement; and any backup belly straps or bow/stern V lines should be gently tensioned.
To clarify, the purpose of the video was only to illustrate the optimal direction of bow/stern snotter V lines to prevent fore-aft shifting (\___/ rather than /___\ ). The video was not meant to illustrate the optimal bar spacing for a thwart-attached birch bark canoe or the amount of ratcheting force to put on the straps or lines, which obviously can differ from canoe to canoe and vehicle to vehicle. The down-pulling leverage of bow/stern lines, if used, can be reduced if they are attached to quarter thwarts or seats, if available.
If a canoe is fragile, like an ultra lightweight racing hull, a skin-on-frame—and I'll presume a birch bark—it can be car topped without bow/stern lines, and be properly immobilized, if the rack bar spacing is sufficiently wide and lateral load blocking is used. I traveled 10,000 miles over seven weeks in one trip around North America with my 22 foot, 30 lb. racing outrigger canoe in this manner, using foam cradles on the rack bars, without any problems.
Good luck. Show us some pictures of your final solution, and tell us for future reference how it worked and what, if anything, you'd do differently.
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Paul Varadian
Curious about Wooden Canoes
Thank you Gary, I will be happier when it arrives, probably in a few weeks and I will give an update to all that so graciously gave advice.
Greg Nolan
enthusiast
In 2014, Ken Kelly brought his birchbark built by Steve Cayard to the WCHA Assembly, from which we took it to Maine for delivery to Steve who would be doing some refurbishing.
Ken supervised and took part in the loading of his birchbark.
The first problem we encountered was that our roof rack was not wide enough for Ken’s canoe and out 16’ OT Ideal. We improvised, duct-taping long-enough 2x4s to the too-short cross bars.
Ken supervised and took part in the loading of his birchbark.
The birchbark was completely wrapped in a white fabric tube, cotton, I think, which was closed by knots at each end. The purpose was to protect against sand, dirt, road debris, and perhaps light rain. I don't recall that we considered heat an issue -- summers in New England are usually not too hot.
We placed the kind of foam pads that are sometimes used for roof-topping canoes and small boats between the canoe gunwales and the 2x4s, compressing the foam. We strapped each canoe with two straps to the rack cross-bars, running the straps through foam tubes usually used to insulate pipes. And we also ran a long strap over both canoes through the car, a belt-and-suspenders measure to deal with the unlikely event of a rack failure.
In my more than 50 years of car-topping many kinds of canoes over thousands of miles of roads ranging from dirt trails to interstate highways, I have found that wind buffeting is the chief (though far from the only) problem that must be dealt with. The best way to deal with buffeting is by using side load brackets on the cross bars, such as these from Yakima.
https://yakima.com/products/single-...b8wTmocNEtslKO9f9QG7RXx-Ooj2u6qKRKkrhGDrwtJdo Other rack systems have similar items. We did not have such brackets at the time, but I believe that compressing the foam blocks did a great deal to immobilize the canoe against buffeting.
I drove less vigorously that I usually would, but nonetheless at highway speeds over 350 miles, some interstate and mostly windy/twisty local highways (US 2 and US5) on the 8 hour trip between the Adirondacks and the middle of Maine, including the Lake Champlain ferry.
Both canoes arrived in Maine safe and sound, and the birchbark was delivered to Steve Cayard in the same condition it left New York.
Ken’s canoe was in generally sound condition. If your canoe is also in generally sound condition, I think you can readily car-top, taking steps to simply wrap the canoe, and to deal with the fact that it cannot be handled as roughly, or tied down quite so firmly, as an ordinary wood-canvas or plastic canoe. But if generally sound, birchbarks are surprisingly strong and durable. The birchbark canoe mentioned above that was auctioned at the past summer’s Assembly was, in fact, a falling-apart wreck. It arrived in a custom crate on a truck, and was hauled away the same way. I suspect your canoe does not need anything like that.
Pad the point at which gunwales sit on crossbars and if possible, also use load stop brackets. Tied down firmly, but don’t overdo it as can be done with other kinds of construction. Wrap it against road debris. And if the canoe allows, tie bow and stern to the front and rear of the car. It was not possible to do this with Ken’s 16’ canoe, and we managed non-the-less. You should have less of a problem with your 13’ canoe if you also cannot tie bow and stern down.
Good luck getting, and using, your birchbark, and let us know what you decided to do.
Greg
Ken supervised and took part in the loading of his birchbark.
The first problem we encountered was that our roof rack was not wide enough for Ken’s canoe and out 16’ OT Ideal. We improvised, duct-taping long-enough 2x4s to the too-short cross bars.
Ken supervised and took part in the loading of his birchbark.
The birchbark was completely wrapped in a white fabric tube, cotton, I think, which was closed by knots at each end. The purpose was to protect against sand, dirt, road debris, and perhaps light rain. I don't recall that we considered heat an issue -- summers in New England are usually not too hot.
We placed the kind of foam pads that are sometimes used for roof-topping canoes and small boats between the canoe gunwales and the 2x4s, compressing the foam. We strapped each canoe with two straps to the rack cross-bars, running the straps through foam tubes usually used to insulate pipes. And we also ran a long strap over both canoes through the car, a belt-and-suspenders measure to deal with the unlikely event of a rack failure.
In my more than 50 years of car-topping many kinds of canoes over thousands of miles of roads ranging from dirt trails to interstate highways, I have found that wind buffeting is the chief (though far from the only) problem that must be dealt with. The best way to deal with buffeting is by using side load brackets on the cross bars, such as these from Yakima.
I drove less vigorously that I usually would, but nonetheless at highway speeds over 350 miles, some interstate and mostly windy/twisty local highways (US 2 and US5) on the 8 hour trip between the Adirondacks and the middle of Maine, including the Lake Champlain ferry.
Both canoes arrived in Maine safe and sound, and the birchbark was delivered to Steve Cayard in the same condition it left New York.
Ken’s canoe was in generally sound condition. If your canoe is also in generally sound condition, I think you can readily car-top, taking steps to simply wrap the canoe, and to deal with the fact that it cannot be handled as roughly, or tied down quite so firmly, as an ordinary wood-canvas or plastic canoe. But if generally sound, birchbarks are surprisingly strong and durable. The birchbark canoe mentioned above that was auctioned at the past summer’s Assembly was, in fact, a falling-apart wreck. It arrived in a custom crate on a truck, and was hauled away the same way. I suspect your canoe does not need anything like that.
Pad the point at which gunwales sit on crossbars and if possible, also use load stop brackets. Tied down firmly, but don’t overdo it as can be done with other kinds of construction. Wrap it against road debris. And if the canoe allows, tie bow and stern to the front and rear of the car. It was not possible to do this with Ken’s 16’ canoe, and we managed non-the-less. You should have less of a problem with your 13’ canoe if you also cannot tie bow and stern down.
Good luck getting, and using, your birchbark, and let us know what you decided to do.
Greg
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Paul Varadian
Curious about Wooden Canoes
Thank you Greg, great advice and I will follow your and other recommendations. I will report in on the result!
Worth Gretter
LOVES Wooden Canoes
I noticed in the pictures above that the bow and stern lines go under the bumpers, probably to hooks. But lots of modern cars have only plastic under there, and the hooks don't have much to grab. The last time I used a rope under the bumper, the hook let go, the rope went under a tire, there was a bang, and the canoe was damaged (bent aluminum gunwale on a Kevlar canoe, which I was able to straighten).
I now use front hood and rear hatch straps. These are webbing loops that are held in place by one of three ways: 1) under a bolt; 2) with something too big to pull out, such as a dowel; or 2) tied around something.
In my case, the hood straps are permanently attached under bolts that were already there, and the straps just fold under the hood when not in use. The rear straps are smaller (1/2 inch webbing instead of 1 inch) and they loop around the mounts for the gas struts that helps raise the hatch. I have had no problems at all with this setup. Of course, in the name of redundancy I have two other supports: straps around the canoe and end brackets on the rack.
Some pictures in this article: https://paddling.com/learn/diy-handy-tie-down-loops
I now use front hood and rear hatch straps. These are webbing loops that are held in place by one of three ways: 1) under a bolt; 2) with something too big to pull out, such as a dowel; or 2) tied around something.
In my case, the hood straps are permanently attached under bolts that were already there, and the straps just fold under the hood when not in use. The rear straps are smaller (1/2 inch webbing instead of 1 inch) and they loop around the mounts for the gas struts that helps raise the hatch. I have had no problems at all with this setup. Of course, in the name of redundancy I have two other supports: straps around the canoe and end brackets on the rack.
Some pictures in this article: https://paddling.com/learn/diy-handy-tie-down-loops
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