beginning '47 OT canoe restoration - newbie questions

[JimNH]

I have an OT canoe that needs new inwales & outwales, decks and stems. I am mostly worried that the canoe will lose it's shape when I am disassembling it. I am thinking of just cutting off the forward and rear-most couple of feet of the gunwales and using temporary battens screwed across the middle to hold the shape while I repair the stems. But what then while replacing the gunwales? Make forms for either the inside or the outside? Or will this not be the problem I think it is?

Currently stymied by being unable to find white oak or white cedar to get gunwales and planking out of. I will be contacting Island Falls Canoe today with my SN to get some pricing on parts.

I look forward to working on this and having the support from this forum. Thanks for being here!

Is there anyone near me who can offer advice?

JIM in Nashua, NH

 

[homerdog]

Jim, I sent you an e-mail response with the info you requested. Mike

 

[JimNH]

I just looked again and the hull number appears to be 168098 - 15. That would not be 1947, though - so I am wrong somewhere.

Here are some pics of what I have to work with!

 

[Greg Nolan]

Why do you think your canoe dates from 1947?

The Old Town canoe with serial number 168098 is a fifteen foot fifty-pounder built in 1958, shipped on January 30, 1959 to
J.A. Lickendorf in Toledo, Ohio, and was originally painter Fire Red -- see a copy of the build record below.

The deck shown in one of your photos is typical of a style of deck Old Town sometimes used on fifty-pounders.

Further information about your canoe, if you have any, might help sort out its history.

It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe. You may wish to check the serial number again -- check the stamping in both stem ends. If you are having trouble reading the number(s), try posting pictures -- some of the folks here are pretty good at deciphering indistinct numbers.



This scan and several hundred thousand others were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/ot_records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue.

Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.

Greg

 

[JimNH]

Thank you so much. I can't remember where the year/date came from - so I was undoubtedly wrong. 1958 it is. Fire Red will be a cool canoe color as well - my daughter will be happy, as she wants to name it "King of the Red Lions" (the hero's boat in the Zelda video games).

Does anyone have a pic of a restored (or unrestored in good condition) OT 50 pounder? Island Pond Canoes said they weren't sure if this was an OT or a Kennebec Guide model - but I think the shapes of the decks on the Kennebec are different.

Have had some great responses and offers of advice and help already - thanks to all!

JIM in NH

 

[JimNH]

http://www.ferwerdacanoe.us/oldtowncanoe.html

This is a great link I found showing the restoration of an OT 50 pounder - this matches my canoe beautifully. Hooray!

JIM

 

[Dave Osborn]

Jim,
You can use ash for stems if that is easier than oak to find. Your canoe most likely has red cedar planking which is available at most lumber yards and box stores. Pick through some red cedar for a nice verticle grain. Just about any red cedar with the right grain can be cut into planking....2x4's, 4x4's, bevel siding, 1x 4's...etc.

 

[frank_a]

I have an OT canoe that needs new inwales & outwales, decks and stems. I am mostly worried that the canoe will lose it's shape when I am disassembling it. I am thinking of just cutting off the forward and rear-most couple of feet of the gunwales and using temporary battens screwed across the middle to hold the shape while I repair the stems. But what then while replacing the gunwales? Make forms for either the inside or the outside? Or will this not be the problem I think it is? JIM in Nashua, NH

I am in the process of renovating a 1947 Old Town C&S grade HW model, and have the same question as Jim posted above. Is there anyone that can share this info on the site for the benefit of all of us newbies? Thanks for any help!

Frank south of Albany NY

 

[Dave Wermuth]

I tie the sides together through the inwales or put a notched stick accross the gunnels. It's best to not let the canoe 'open up' for any period of time. You'll spend time pulling it back together later. Temp thwarts with various lengths are also found laying around the shop. I bolt or screw them in, as the mood hits me. Making forms is not necessary. If you're splicing inwales you most likely won't have enough spread to worry about for the brief period of time you'll have it apart.

 

[frank_a]

Excellent advice! Thank you very much. I'll get at it tomorrow before I get any further.

Frank

 

[JimNH]

I met with Ed Moses yesterday, and he got me set up with some stock for repairing rib tops, and for splicing repairs into my inwales. I built a set of carpet-horses to hold the canoe, and took off the keel and outwales. I am now waiting for it to stop raining so I can strip the varnish off the inside. Turns out Ed and I found at least four broken ribs that will have to be replaced. I also got about 30' of red cedar clapboards that I am planing down to 1/8" thick. Ed also set me up with the pieces for the stem-top repairs.

I plan to get the inwales and rib-tops scarfed and the stem tops fixed very soon.

JIM in NH

 

[JimNH]

made some progress after meeting with Ed. Outwales are off, canvas vestiges removed and tacks pulled (they looked more like escutcheon pins). I got carried away and replaced the deck on one end instead of putting in a temp deck ("while you are at it"). I made the deck out of cherry, but I think I tapered the inwales too much, or made the deck too long - the end is not "right" but I think will work.

JIM

 

[Ed Moses]

Jim,

Good job with the stem repair. Glad to see that the additional material left on the inside serves as a very good strengthening "backer" for the splice and down the rear of the old ash stem. The old stem might be a tad weakened and the "backer" beefs it up real well.

I would not fret about your delicate inwale taper, it all matches up evenly at the stem and looks good, add a couple more screws thru inwale into deck for good measure, one on each side. You might consider relieving the bottom of the deck below the keyhole to reduce some "meat" (weight) of the deck and give it a more graceful appearance.

Keep us pictorially abreast of your progress.

Ed

 

[JimNH]

more canoe butchering

more pics - started on the other end now. Mr. Moses said it looks better to have the repairs symmetrical and he's right - but I am going asymmetric on the inwale repairs at the bow...I want to have more original canoe if possible, and one side was just too far gone to save...see pics.

two broken ribs here as well.

I think I might have to steam and bend the long piece here - my stock isn't wide enough to cover the long gentle S-shape in the piece in either plane.

also a pic of my first rib-tip repair - I backed this one 'cause it won't show - but probably didnt' have to as it was pretty strong once screwed to the inwale.

JIM

 

[Ed Moses]

Jim,
Hey, what's this MR. stuff!!!
Your rib tip scarfs for the rest of the canoe need to be much longer like 6 - 8:1. They can vary depending on how much rib top has rotted away. The one under your deck is much, much too steep an angle, there is not much glueing surface and strength thus why I'm sure you decided to back it. There has been some excellent pictorial advice given in past threads on this. Do a search for "rib tip splice pics". Poster Peterng from New Brunswick has shown it well.

Ed

 

[JimNH]

Well, I made one side of the other foredeck, but I need to steam the inwale on the other side. After going to the dump and some other errands today, my plan is to cobble together a steam box and try it out. Otherwise, I was thinking of slicing the spruce on the bandsaw and then gluing the laminations up on a form - which would work, but not as much fun as steaming something.

I have an idea that I am going to make the steam box 4' long but able to accept a 5' extension on either end, so it can end up being 20' long if needed for gunwales later. Anyone have a good link to a steam box post...I will go search the archives now.

From the interwebs - a sliding box! Great idea!

http://combraystudio.blogspot.com/2011/01/sunday-toolfoolery-building-improved.html

JIM in NH

 

[Greg Nolan]

I would think that the weight of the sliding box would be a constant issue -- worth it if you are always going back and forth, but simple length additions might be easier and lighter.

 

[JimNH]

Been quiet for a while - too much else going on to spend much time on the canoe sadly. I did make a steam box this weekend - just a plane jane 6 foot long pine box. I'll rig a heat source this week and try steaming some ribs and the longer piece of the inwale that I still need. I'll also be ordering my canvas, tacks, etc.

JIM in NH