Newbie questions about 1st canoe purchase

[wanderlustjake]

Hi,

I just joined as I am beginning the search for a canoe and it looks like there is a wealth of knowledge and help available here. After a recent trip to a relatives cottage, my family got to canoe and kayak and really enjoyed it. After seeing them enjoying it so much it has awakened the old thought of getting one. I made the mistake of looking online and have found what seems to be a decent buy. I apologize for my rookie questions I am about to ask, but I would rather ask now than regret not later. I have found a '48 Old Town 17' OTCA (owners thinks). Having never owned a wood canoe and this being the first one I have looked at to purchase, what would you recommend to a newbie to look for in terms of problem areas, what to look for etc. The owner says it is all original, there is no rot or broken ribs. Seats are in good shape. One of the decks has a split in it (is this a major issue?). Says the canvas is tired, but no leaks, just needs paint and varnished. Any help or tips would be GREATLY appreciated. I generally try and study up and do research to educate myself, but this one jumped out before I could do that.

p.s. any recommended reading on wood and canvas canoes?

Thanks in advance,

Jason

 

[MikeCav]

OK, everyone sing along..."Bum - bum -bum, another one bites the dust!"

Jason, you are about to stick the cedar needle into your arm and become just another wooden canoe addict. Welcome to the community.

I have found a '48 Old Town 17' OTCA (owners thinks).

Look on the bottom of the stems for a serial number. For help finding the number, look at this thread - http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?t=791
Once you find the number, post it here and we can get you a copy of the build record so you know just what you have, where it was delivered and how it was outfitted and finished. If it is really a '48 OT, the number should be in the neighborhood of 150000 +/- a thousand or so.

The owner says it is all original, there is no rot or broken ribs. Seats are in good shape. One of the decks has a split in it (is this a major issue?).

Broken ribs and rot at the top of the stems/tip of the deck are fairly common - check carefully. The biggest problem is the varnish on the inside hides a lot of sins - if it is painted, the sins are hidden even more! Look carefully and push on the hull at the bilge (where the bend is) looking for movement or flexing of the ribs. The deck is held on with screws through the inwales. If it is a clean crack, you might be able to remove it, seperate the crack and glue the split.

Says the canvas is tired, but no leaks, just needs paint and varnished.

If all is true, slap a coat of paint on it, and enjoy it for a summer or two - you can take on a very rewarding restoration process this winter or next.

I generally try and study up and do research to educate myself, but this one jumped out before I could do that.

p.s. any recommended reading on wood and canvas canoes?

This forum is a great resource - as far as books go, The Wood and Canvas Canoe by Jerry Stelmok and Rollin Thurlow is considered by many to be the bible, but there are plenty of fine books out there. Look at the WCHA bookstore for books http://woodencanoe.org/catalog/index.php?cPath=92&osCsid=f18f0b86aca763739e60b283e9f34ad0
Rolin & Jerry's book is on the second page.

Good luck!

 

[wanderlustjake]

Mike,

Thank You for the welcome and tips. I'll check the stems and look for movement as you recommend. Other than obvious holes, is there anything to beware of with the canvas? My interest is starting to build but cautious at the same time. I asked the owner via email about the serial number and he said it should be there, but didn't provide it, I'll look when I see it next week.

I saw the book you recommended, I guess I need to order it and start reading.

Thank You,

Jason

 

[Dave Wermuth]

Good advice from Mikecav

and I'll add that a post war otca 17' seems a good first fix. If you get any of the bill Mason videos you can see that his canoe is all beat up and still serves proudly so a little damage is acceptable.

My first one was 18' 'glass covered rotten 1926 that i paid $200.00 for. Probably about $200 too much, i might add. but I had it redone for $1400 and with $1600 invested had a really nice canoe that is worth the cost more or less.

Welcome to the addiction. It is a pleasant obsession.

 

[MGC]

What to buy?

Be warned, one is just a start

I think you have a few questions to ask yourself before you dive in.

Are you interested in a wood/canvas canoe as a project or to paddle?

Do you want a canoe that you can use right away?

How much money do you want to spend on the canoe and restoration?

If you bought a canoe that requires restoration would you do the work yourself or have it done for you?

If you want a boat to paddle and don't want to do a restoration then look at the classifieds here for one that is already restored. You may pay a bit more for it but unless it's a rare boat, the sell price of a restored canoe will usually not be too much more than what it costs for buying an unrestored one and doing the work.
If you are handy and if you do all of the work yourself you will save a ton of money, but you will invest a pretty good amount of time to get the work done. If your interest is to get into the water quickly, this may not be the way to go until your next boat.

A proffesional restoration can be quite costly. Often a restoration will cost the value of the boat.

At the end of the day, the best "deal" is a restored boat. Usually these end up being the best buy.

Finally, one really super option is to buy a new canoe from a reputable builder like Rollin or Jerry or any of the many others that build and sell. You could actually build your own boat in their shop (a build class) and learn all of the tricks and end up with a gorgeous canoe when you are done.

 

[MikeCav]

canvas

Jason,
Aside from the obvious holes in the canvas. look along the outwales and stems for signs that the canvas is pulling away or rotting and examine the bottom and sides for places where the paint and filler has been scratched and the weave of the cloth is showing. If the canvas is basiclly sound, and there are no other serious problems, then a coat of paint may keep you paddling for a while, until you get the urge to restore.

To help with the terminology take a look at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/specific.gif

I see you are in Michigan. There are a number of very active WCHA members out there you shold also reach out to as a resource. Keep posting and send pictures - we all love to kibbitz on other peoples projects!

 

[Woodchuck]

Where in SE MI? I am building a Stripper which is a cedar strip canoe that is fiberglassed on both sides. It is a alternative to cedar canvas and some folk enjoy the building process. I have my hull nearly finished and am getting ready to glass. If you would like to check it out, give me a email
CYA, Joe