All Things XX

[tnyankee]

Ok, first let me start off by saying that I should be posting photos here as I am starting this thread, but it will be a week or so before I can get any uploaded. With that said, since a few XX canoes have cropped up lately and since they are relatively few and far between, I thought we could post photos here as well as photos of early OTCA canoes for comparison.

My dad and I recently acquired an XX canoe. It was literally right under our noses which is very uncommon down here in the south.

Decks are OTCA like, except they stop short of the tip (doesn't appear to be rot induced. THere is a block of wood cut to fit in as the tip of the canoe. I will photograph this piece when I get to the canoe. There is also a cap piece of wood that covers the union of the deck and this block. I think these are both original to the canoe, but would love to see tips/decks of other canoes.

Ribs do not taper. Outwale is pieced together not one single piece. It is scarfed??

The other interesting aspect to several of the XX records that have been called up here on the website is the use of differing wood species for decks, gunwales, thwarts and seats. For example, ours has spruce gunwales, thwarts, and seats with birch decks.

Well, there it is....Lets see all the XX pics you can come up with.

Adam

 

[Mike Mathey]

XX chatter

Let's see, how do I begin... so much info to convey... First off I have been noticing some comments concerning XX models lately. I have an 18' Old Town canoe that may be what I believe to be a XX model. I originally bought this canoe when I was in high school in the late 1960's. The man I bought it from informed me that he had restored the canoe in 1951, and he explained they had to replace the stems where the ID nos. were located, he had mentioned something about the stems still being around somewhere, but being young and dumb I could have cared less --- I just wanted a canoe. In the mid 1970's I reluctantly sold it to one of my dad's friends' daughter - big mistake.

I later inquired about the canoe from the daughter, she told me where it was, that the wind caught it and damaged it; there it was self deposing in the dirt, it kinda turned my stomach. Long story short I bought it back from her and attempted several times to repair it. Years went by and I drug it with me from various moves I made.... Then I decided to do something .. sell it.. burn it... repair it, or have it repaired.

With the access to i'net I became aware of Gil Cramer, called him and made arrangements to take the canoe to him -- Great decision!! He gave me a price to restore the canoe (it wasn't cheap) but you get what you pay for and he done a wonderful job on this canoe.... worth every penny!!!
This restoration was no job for a novice like myself.

Well anyways while Gil had it in his possession working on it, he tried to do some research on it... He told me he believed it to be a model XX, it is definitely Grade AA with the mahogany trim and long decks, closed gunwales. Gil also said something about referring to it as a "triple dub" and estimated it to be about a 1907.

When I get it out .. soon! I will take some pictures and get them posted for all to see.... I am very proud of this canoe, and the only way I will part with it ever again is when somebody has to pry it from my cold stiff fingers!

Thanks for reading thru this long post...... Mike

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Hi Mike,

Yours is a great story of connecting with an old friend.

I believe there'll be an XX or two at the WCHA Assembly in July... giving us the opportunity to inspect this model and compare with the older Otca. If you're planning on attending the assembly, you and your canoe would be very welcome!

Looking forward to pictures--

Kathy

 

[paul s]

here are a few pictures of my 1908 16' xx paul shirley

 

[tnyankee]

Mike, great story. I look forward to seeing your canoe. Paul, yours looks awesome. When it was restored, did you have to replace the decks, or are they original to the canoe?

I will be taking some photos of our 16' XX tomorrow and will post them up within the next few days.

 

[Mike Mathey]

Paul; Beautiful canoe!! Thanks for the pics. Adam; the decks are original except for the tips of them, when I found the canoe, it was up side down with the tips in the dirt doing it's biodegradable thing. Gil blended them in really nice although it did loose a little tip height. Pics to come soon!

Mike

 

[paul s]

adam, decks are original, although i had to splice their tips. they are made of ash. there was only 1 original seat, which was made of spruce and it couldn't be saved i made new ones with ash to match decks. there are 8 new ribs, several feet of planking. gunnels, inside and out have been spliced at tips. all in all not too bad for something 102 years old. paul shirley

 

[msturd]

Mike,
Am anxiously awaiting pics of your XX. My 1909 spent many years face down in the dirt, so had no decks and most of the stems were rotted away . Would love to see a good close shot of the decks and how the coaming looks in relation to the inwale. Mine too, is closed gunwales...am wondering about how the railcap passes the coaming. (Notice Benson and Kathy, I am now accepting that it is a XX model.)

 

[Tom Spicer]

Xx

I am a new member to all of this facinating old wood canoe information. What does XX mean? Is this an unidentifiable canoe, or some missing canoes? Thanks, Tom

 

[Jan Bloom]

Tom,

An XX is an early Old Town model.

 

[Tom Spicer]

Xx

Thanks Jan, That helps.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

That reminds me-- did anyone take an XX to the Assembly this year? I remember thinking we'd compare it to the Otca.

Tom-- as Jan said, the XX was an early Old Town model... it had a deck similar to the Otca's (a 20" one-piece deck with coaming) and it was speculated that it might have been an early version of the Otca.

Kathy

 

[paul s]

yes cathy i did take my 1908 xx to assembly. there are some differances such as amount of ribs. and also the xx seems to have a rounder bottom and a little sharper entry wish you could have been there. paul shirley

 

[Tom Spicer]

I think OTCA

I have a wood/canvass canoe that I think is an OTCA.I cannot find any numbers on the stems or anywhere. It is 17ft. overall and 34in. wide. It has mahogany decks, twarts, seats and 1/4 round trim under the inwales. The decks are convex round like the OTCA. The screws are all slotted brass and the seat hardware is steel and countersunk. The screws were filled with a filler. I hope that these pictures help. Thanks, Tom

 

[Tom Spicer]

Here is the pics.

 

[tnyankee]

Im gonna go on a hunch and say your canoe may be a Kennebec( i could be so wrong here)....reach under the decks and feel for a subdeck that has a heart shape. Kennebec used metal tags for serial numbers and also had a trim piece under the outwales that resembled a quarter round. Your pics haven't come through yet...Can't wait to see them.

Adam

 

[Tom Spicer]

The decks

The decks are out and there is nothing but the 1 1/2 block of wood. The decks also had a coaming on the inside. There was a tag of some sort the guy I bought it from said that the guy before him removed. In other words long gone. I have asked Roger to post the pics because I cannot get them to transfer. Thanks for the opinion

 

[Kathryn Klos]

@Paul S-- I look forward to seeing your XX at Assembly 2011! Interesting differences-- still sounds like the XX may have been an early version of the Otca.

@Tom-- Several of the old canoe companies built canoes with long decks with coaming, which appear similar to an Otca's deck. A metal tag on the deck sounds Kennebec-like, and the top grade Kennebec has long decks with coaming. I believe the longer decks on the Kennebec consist of three pieces-- two that meet in the middle, with the seam covered by a narrow strip or "king plank"--- this is different from the Otca deck, which is one-piece.

Looking forward to your pictures!

Kathy

 

[tnyankee]

Kathy is holding her breath wanting to see photos of a long decked Morris canoe.

 

[Tom Spicer]

Not Morris

The stem is a 3/4 wide one piece so I don' 't see it being a Morris. The stem is not splayed at all. I cannot find where (it there ever was one) a tag could of been. The front deck is three pieces of 1 3/4 laminated together. The rear deck is one piece 3/4 thick bent to match the curve of the bow. I took the full keel off today and it is 1 1/2" wide 7/8" thick with the brass stem bands. I wish I could get the pics to transfer.