A question about canoe seats & old wood...

[Howie]

You may have read in a Thread a few days ago that I just picked up a 1937 Old Town Yankee. I've just de-assembled the seats to prep them for refinishing. While all the seat wood is 'whole' and sound, the shorter cross beam parts - the ones that have the dowel holes in the ends - have age cracks in the wood, some of which extend into the dowel holes. Can these parts be used again? I mean, if I were to use them again, I would clean & ream the dowel holes out real good to ensure that the new dowel & glue made good contact with the old wood. And the glue from the dowel hole would surely seep into these cracks in the old wood. Do you think that'd be good enough to hold the part together when my fat ass hits the seat? or is there no substitute for new 'whole' wood and should I simply remake these parts?

 

[Rob Stevens]

I just rebuilt two sets of seats similar to what you describe. The key is to use epoxy glue. I also "painted" all of the wood with epoxy, so the cracks have soaked up plenty of additional structural strength.

 

[pklonowski]

I haven't done this on seat frames, which take different stresses than the paddle blades that I've fixed this way, so take this with a grain of salt -- or someone may chime in with a much better idea. I've mixed very fine wood flour (from the RO sander dust collector) with epoxy, to a peanut butter consistency, and then used a putty knife to fill small cracks, or a combination of this goo with wood shims for larger cracks. They've held so far.

 

[Todd Bradshaw]

If mixing resin with filler it would be a better idea to give the area a quick and thin coat of neat resin/hardener before introducing the filled stuff. It will seal and penetrate better (although using the word "penetrate with any wood finish is kind of stretching the truth). Your fill will then have a better toe-hold on the wood. You always want to mix the resin and hardener first anyway, before adding any filler, so mix the resin, put a thin coat on the wood (brush, Q-tip or whatever works) then mix your filler into the remaining resin and apply it. You needn't wait between the neat coat and the filler mix for anything to harden. You'll notice when mixing fillers into resin that the more you add, the less sticky the mixture seems to get. This way we get a good grip on the raw wood on one side and a good grip on the filler mix on the other side.

Most epoxy bonds are strong enough to exceed the grain strength of the wood (assuming it isn't rotten wood) and meeting or exceeding the natural grain strength is as strong as that particular hunk of wood can ever get. I have been known on occasion to stuff a butter knife into a crack if I can open it up a bit and apply epoxy using the edge of a piece of paper or a business card, as far up the crack as I can get it to go. You also don't need (or want) excessive clamping pressure. Give it a little bit, but less than you might use on glues like Tightbond or Weldwood. You don't want to squeeze all the epoxy out of the joint by applying too much pressure.

 

[Howie]

Epoxy. Wouldn't work with Tight-bond III?

 

[pklonowski]

Never tried it with TB3. Let us know how it comes out!

 

[Dave Osborn]

I've used Tite Bond III to re glue split seat members with new dowels. I use the glue liberally and clamp aggressively. Epoxy would be fine, too. I often use syringes to get glues as deep into the splits as possible.
No known failures.
If there are splits along the cane hole line, I've done the glue, clamp and screw between the holes routine.
I pretty much do whatever it takes to keep original, or at least period appropriate seats in vintage canoes...

I never use a saw dust fortified epoxy for areas that need bonding.....only as a filler.

If you end up using new seats, I recommend Essex Industries..... They employe the handicapped and make a decent seat that is cheaper than you can build for.
As always, there are many ways to do stuff in our wooden canoe world....just telling you what has worked for me.

 

[Ossineke]

JB Weld now makes a product for wood. Our 1946 Old Town has all wood slats for seats (maple?) and we rebuilt those with new dowls & JB Weld where needed. Product seems to have worked well, have used the canoe often.
Bill

 

[Howie]

So here's what I decided to do: I took some thin strips of ash & TB glued them to the bottom of the seat spacers. The strips are long enough to extend almost to the total width of the seat, thereby spanning the joints between the doweled parts. Thus the seats should never break as the new strips reinforce both the doweled joint as well as existing cracks in the original wood. And since they aren't really visible from above they shouldn't spoil the look. Purists may argue the point, but what the heck, we all use staples don't we?

 

[Dan Lindberg]

You might want to put a good chamfer on the ends of your added wood, so you don't have any sharp edges to find.

I've only managed to do a few canoes so far, and only two got the original seats repaired, and one of those got new stretchers on one frame. Every seat I've ever got/seen with dowels was loose/falling apart.
My new seat frames always get M&T joints.

Dan

 

[Howie]

Yup - sharp edges are hell on cane.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

And skin and fishing line too.