1960s old town ?s

[rmscustom]

I'm looking at buying this canoe. Owner thinks its a 1960s but is not sure. Can anybody give me some more info on it?
What year, model and what its worth in the current condition?
I dont know much about these but I'm assuming it needs to be re-canvased? What would that cost?
I'm a carpenter by trade and I'm pretty handy, is this something I could do by myself?
Is it useable in its current condition?
Whats it worth restored?
Thanks for any help

 

[Greg Nolan]

For a discussion on valuing a canoe, see:

http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?57-How-much-is-my-old-wooden-canoe-worth

From looking at these photos, I would guess that this canoe is probably almost useable in its current condition. The wood appears to be sound. A couple of coats of paint would improve appearances and likely would make the canoe water-tight. Smoothing the cracks in the underlying paint and making them invisible is pretty near impossible -- but new paint would improve appearances. The canoe would benefit from refinishing the interior, but (again, judging from these photos) that is probably not immediately necessary.

Removing old canvas, putting a new one on, then filling and repainting, are tasks not as difficult as they may seem, and are almost certainly within the capabilities of a carpenter who is pretty handy. There is lots of information on these tasks in these forums -- a sample:

Long list of links and discussion about repainting
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?8906-Repaint-Tips

sanding or not (before painting a cracked surface)
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?6607-sanding-or-not&p=35286#post35286

restoring paint/canvas
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?9626-My-first-wood-canoe&p=50987#post50987

If you can get the serial number (stamped into the stems on the floor of the canoe at each end), we should be able to get you a copy of the build record.

Greg

 

[rmscustom]

Thanks for the info (from the post and PM's). Please keep it coming. The current owner is going to get me close up pics of the decal on the front and look for a serial#, they are also going to measure the length... I'll keep this updated with more info when I get it.

 

[Dave Wermuth]

I paid $700 for one quite similar not long ago. canvas would cost 100-300 depending on a number of variables, maybe more to have it done. Does anyone else think $500 for it would be a good deal? And a grand is on the top end, maybe a bit too high for my thinking. I'd be interested in other peoples' opinions too.

 

[Greg Nolan]

If my assumptions above about condition, based on the photos, are correct, and assuming that it is a 15' Old Town built in the 1960's, I think Dave's numbers are just about right.

In 2009, I paid a bit more than $400 for an older OT of that size, in need of some wood repairs, interior refinishing, and a new canvas, but nonetheless useable (and in active use since purchase, after some exterior paint).

Greg

 

[rmscustom]

So you guys are thinking this is a 15' trapper or fifty?
What are the strengths of this model? I will use it mostly in small lakes and the occasional river in WI but I'm thinking it might be a little small for the bwca.
I'll know more about this weekend and if its in the shape I'm thinking it might be coming home with me.

 

[Greg Nolan]

We have been quite pleased with our 15' OT 50 pounder. We use it for day-trip paddling on lakes, streams, and bogs, mostly in central Maine. It is fairly roomy and could be suitable for short camping trips, but not if you are a heavy packer. Lightly built, it is not a canoe you would want to use for a lot of white water paddling. Even with a keel, it is quite maneuverable and responsive, and with a fairly flat bottom, stable. It's fine for solo paddling; when paddling alone, I sit backwards on the bow seat, and put a rock or some other bit of weight in the bow (the normal stern) for better trim.

Our new (for us) 16' OT Ideal is prettier, more tender, a bit faster, a bit heavier, a bit roomier, a bit sleeker, and a bit less responsive. Being heavier and lacking a center thwart, it is more awkward to handle on land. It is quite difficult for one person alone to load on top of the car, and a chore even for two people.

I can easily load the 50 pounder onto the car top myself -- even more easily after I replaced the original center thwart with a portage yoke, and it is readily moved around on dry land. Ours has a couple of cracked ribs a hole in the planking, some dings in the gunwales, and has needed a new canvas since we got it -- but nonetheless is very functional. I've recaned the seats, made the portage yoke, and played around with three different paint schemes -- and it will get a full restoration in about a year.

The Ideal is replacing the 50 pounder for cruising, but we still use the 50 pounder for smaller streams, or when we want to quickly throw it on top of the car for a short afternoon paddle in a nearby river..



Not for serious white water or expedition camping, but otherwise, it is a great all-around canoe.

Greg

 

[Dave Wermuth]

I love mine but it's not a tripper, unless solo, I suppose.

 

[rmscustom]

It turns out that its a 1928 fifty... Does that make it more valuable compared to a 1960s?

 

[Dan Miller]

It turns out that its a 1928 fifty... Does that make it more valuable compared to a 1960s?

In all likelihood, probably not. For all practical purposes, they are identical canoes, built on the same molds, using the same techniques. Condition is going to be the primary factor determining value. All other things being equal, the older one might have a slightly higher value due to its age, and the fact that the older canoes have a slight edge in refinement of construction details (e.g. the deck cutouts are more elegant in the older canoes).

Dan

 

[Greg Nolan]

Our 50 pounder is from 1931. I'd be inclined to say that older age in and of itself, with these canoes, does not increase value -- they are not particularly rare, whether older or newer. I think condition would affect value much more than age, and generally speaking, a canoe 40 years younger is likely to be in somewhat better condition -- but that is just speaking in generalities.

The canoe in question, while perhaps usable for a while in as-is condition, could certainly benefit from some work -- new canvas, new paint, new interior finish. In refinishing the interior, you likely would want to recane the seats. So this canoe is not worth as much as one, new or old, that has had that kind of work done recently. The things that need, or will soon need, to be done cost as much (or is as much work for you) on a canoe from the '60's as on one from the '20's.

 

[rmscustom]

Well I got a chance to go look at it and ended up buying it. The wood is in great condition, nothing broken, nothing cracked and nothing rotted that I could find. I'm just amazed at how good of shape the wood is in. As expected it needs to be recanvassed but I'm hoping i can do a paint job and get some use out of it the way it is. The fact that it turned out older than originally thought just adds to the "cool" factor for me even though it doesn't increase it's value. I got a pic of the serial # attached if someone could give me more info. From knowing nothing about these things to owning one in a week is pretty crazy but I couldn't be happier with it. Btw its 30 degrees and snowing in WI... Perfect canoe weather. lol

Posted in the serial# search section

 

[normsims]

Your Old Town canoe #101234 was a 15-foot, 50 pounder built in 1929 and shipped to Eagle River, Wis. It was a CS or common sense model with open spruce gunwales, and birch seats, thwarts, and decks. It's original color was dark green.

I have attached the build record. This scan and several hundred thousand others were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/ot_records/ if you want more details. I hope that you and anyone else reading this will join or renew membership in the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://www.wcha.org/join.php to renew.

Norm

 

[rmscustom]

I just wanted to give a big thanks to everybody for all the info I got from the posts and PM's.

 

[rmscustom]

Finally got this thing out on the water a couple weeks ago.

After I got it I sanded the exterior down and primed it and then waited 5 weeks for the primer to dry but it never did. I used a Sherwin Williams alkyd ext. wood primer. After receiving ZERO help from my Sherwin Williams store I ended up stripping it back down with a putty knife and about 25 sheets of orbital sand paper and started over with a different primer and paint and all went good.

I love how it paddles and how quiet it is... It has also given me an idea on how to access some remote land for whitetails this fall Here's a few pics my girlfriend took.

 

[Greg Nolan]

Looks like you've got some nice places to paddle that canoe -- glad you like the way it paddles -- good luck with it.
Greg

 

[JClearwater]

Looks like you got yourself a great canoe. And it looks like your girlfriend likes it too - another great thing. I always knew wood canoes were chick magnets!!

Jim C.