1947 OT Yankee Advice

[Shirley Doell]

Hello on the WCHA Forum,
I have a 1947 Old Town Yankee that has been in my family since before I was born. Pictures of it are on Flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/40593572@N04/

It needs a little love now, and I want to refinish it and get it back on the water. It has a long scrape on the bottom that is through the canvass in a couple places, but otherwise is in good shape structurally and water tightness. I really don't want to go to the trouble of doing a complete canvassing, since I just want it to be usable and not too ugly. So Questions:

1 Is there a way to repair the places that the canvas is cut?
2. I'd like to paint it back to the dark red paint that it was originally. Is there a source for that paint?
3. It has been refinished at least once before, and used in salt water. There are stains on the inside from the fastenings corroding. Is there any way of making those less ugly?
4. Anything else that any of you can suggest will be appreciated! Thanks. -Shirley

 

[Dave Wermuth]

I'll give you my opinion:
Yes, you can patch it up and go paddling.
But, it really needs a restoration. The varnish looks thin and/or absent.
You're right about the issues with salt. That's a problem.
As you proceed keep in mind that you don't want to do anything that is difficult to undo. Avoid fiberglass and silicone. Stick with tried and true methods, of which there are many.

Try to find a mentor locally who can walk you thru the steps. Seek out any members that are local to you.

I really like Kirby Paint and primer.

 

[Shirley Doell]

Thanks for the advice Dave!
I should have mentioned that I will be re-varnishing all the varnished parts, and I guess my question is: can a restoration be done on this boat without replacing the canvas? I guess that might depend on the definition of restoration. The canvas seems to be in reasonable shape over most of the hull, and I'd be interested in opinions as to whether there are techniques for patching that are reasonably good, or that re-canvassing is the best way to go even with just a few bad spots. I have zero experience with canvas. (I have LOTS of varnishing & painting experience) Are there solutions to the corrosion problems with the fastenings? I agree with the advice on silicone and fiberglass, I wouldn't consider those for a second! I should have mentioned I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area. How do I contact mentors near here? I'll look into Kirby paint. Thanks a bunch! -Shirley

 

[Dave Wermuth]

yes. it depends on how you define a restoration. I think what you're hoping to do is fix it up.

If the canvas has a hole, glue a piece behind it and sand and prime and paint. Don't glue to the hull, glue to the canvas.

The brass tacks are somewhat dissolved by the salt. I think you want to sand and varnish and call it done.

Canvasing a canoe is the most intimidating step, and yet it is just about the easiest once you do it.
If you sand the inside and outside and varnish and paint, you should get a bit more use.
It doesn't have to be perfect unless you want it to.

 

[Benson Gray]

The list of restorers at http://www.wcha.org/buildsupply/ indicates that professional options in your area are very limited. The books at http://store.wcha.org/The-Wood-and-Canvas-Canoe.html and http://store.wcha.org/This-Old-Canoe-by-Mike-Elliott.html may be your best solution if you are willing to take this on yourself. There are no known solutions to the corrosion issues (other than replacement when necessary) or to the discolorations in the ribs. Good luck,

Benson

 

[Howie]

It should be mentioned that there's a big problem with refinishing a canoe's interior wood and expect to use the existing canvas: the paint/varnish stripper will likely ruin the old canvas. At least, I've always assumed this is true - perhaps I'll be corrected by other members reading this. Plus you'll likely want to clean and 'brighten' the stripped wood prior to revarnishing, and the chemicals used to do this will do the old canvas no favors either. And in addition to the above problems the new varnish will ooze through the cracks in the planking to stick to the canvas - this'll be a problem down the line if/when the canvas is ultimately replaced.

It looks like you have a wonderful old canoe there. Too bad you're not a bit closer to me (I'm 30 miles south of Rochester NY) - your canoe seems to be a perfect candidate for restoration & I'd love to get my hands on it!

 

[Greg Nolan]

double post -- see below

 

[Greg Nolan]

The existing paint and canvas shown in your pictures are in poor shape, and are due for replacement. The tears seem to indicate canvas that is old and weak and worn. At best, you might expect a couple more years of use from them before a new canvas will really be needed. Replacing canvas is an ordinary maintenance item on a wood/canvas canoe -- something like getting new tires on an older car.

Your paint is cracking badly, and will soon be chipping off -- new paint will not keep that from happening, and no paint is any better than what is under it. Sanding will smooth things a bit, but you will never get a really smooth surface.

That said, you well may wish to use the canoe for a couple of years before replacing the canvas
-- here are some links to some discussions in these forums of painting over old cracked or chipped paint, when you want the paint to last only a season or three or five before re-canvasing:

http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?t=5790 see pp. 2-3 of this thread

http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?7769-Painting-over-existing-paint&p=41339#post41339

http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.p...t-Restoration-advice-please&p=32358#post32358

http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?7775-Temp-repair-to-bare-spot-on-canvas&p=41357#post41357\

http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?7619-time-is-not-on-my-side!&p=40689#post40689

http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?8564-Smoothing-Canvas/page2 starting at post 12, on Bondo spot putty

http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?6607-sanding-or-not&p=35286#post35286

http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?8906-Repaint-Tips

And as Howie notes above, there aree good reasons for doing the interior and exterior of the canoe at the same time.

 

[ssommers]

Shirley,
I would plan on re-canvassing the canoe. I recently tried to prolong the life of a wood canvas canoe that is 40 years old. I was told that I could just patch the few holes and little tears in the canvas of my canoe and get through the first season I had it. Yes you can do this, but what I didn't realize is that those patches leaked a bit, and large areas of the wet soggy canvas then sat next to the hull and the whole thing mildewed. The black mildew bled through to the interior of the canoe and got under the varnish, and within a couple of months, the interior of my canoe was stained with black mildew, which cannot be removed completely, (though there are two part toxic solutions that can kill the mold and remove some of it.) The frustrating thing is that I was planning to replace the canvas within a couple of months anyway.

If you are going to paddle this boat in salt water, all the more reason to re-canvass it. Upon looking at your photos: it does look there is serious deterioration where many of the tacks are clinched in the ribs. I'd get the advice of a seasoned builder who has delt with this particular problem before, as this damage is going to need to be addressed in a restoration. If the boat will continue to be used in salt water, I would think paddling this boat with a new canvas and thorough paint restoration, and varnish restoration, and washing the boat after each use with a freshwater hose will help slow down further deterioration of the ribs where the tacks are visible.

When I began my journey into canoe maintenance, re-canvassing looked like it's a big deal. It really isn't. Additionally there are several great things about re-canvassing a hull, Importantly, with the canvas off, you get to oil the hull with a reconditioning mixture of wood oils, which adds to the longevity of the boat. Also, on close inspection, once you remove or take off a layer of the old varnish, from the interior, you may find a cracked rib or two. With the canvas off, you are in a position to replace those ribs.

If the boat is special to you, and you want to keep it and enjoy it to the fullest, I'd visit a local builder for advice and get the book, The Wood Canvas Canoe, A Complete Guide to It's History, Construction, Restoration, and Maintenance. And if you want to meet dozens of people who own, restore, and construct these books, come to Paul Smith's College for the WCHA summer gathering, in the Adirondacks and view at least one hundred of these sorts of boats. So many at the summer gathering will be glad to give you excellent advice about your restoration project. You can bring your boat along, and a skilled builded will look over your boat and make suggestions about how you should go about it. Kirby Paint Company shows up and sells paint as well. You may also attend a re-canvassing workshop (if it is offered this year? My memory is that it is offered every year.)

---sam sommers