New (to me) Chestnut

[caleb]

I just returned home with a Chestnut canoe. This is my first wood and canvas hull, and I look forward to using it on trips next summer.

I'm hoping you all can help me learn a little more about what I've got, as well as what I've gotten myself into.

The hull is 16 feet long (or so, depending on how I hold the tape), but only about 32.5" wide at the center thwart. The outer wale is rounded, but the inner is square. The ribs are rounded on both sides, and are 1 1/4" to 1 3/8" wide. The Chestnut logo is from Fredericton, NB.

Chestnut Canoe by 1ctg, on Flickr

Chestnut Canoe by 1ctg, on Flickr

A little about the condition. I made a preliminary commitment and drove to see the boat based on pictures and the assurance that it was "lightly repaired" and fully seaworthy. As many of you have probably experienced, that did not turn out to be exactly the case.

First, the good. The interior finish is really nice, and I can't find any rot. The seats, decks, and thwarts all seem ready to go. The keel is in place with brass trim, and I suspect the canvas is original.

Now the (undisclosed) not-so-good. I think the canoe was dropped on a rock, which is what landed it in a barn for the past few decades. There is one significantly cracked plank, and four cracked ribs. The spot where the impact occurred is moderately soft, but not water damaged. The canvas appears to have suffered a small puncture at that spot, and has been patched. I suspect the canvas was repainted after the patch, as the patch is painted over and there's a little paint on the underside of the gunnels. The paint on each side of the keel has cracked, and I don't know if it's just from age or an impact.

Chestnut Canoe by 1ctg, on Flickr

Chestnut Canoe by 1ctg, on Flickr

Chestnut Canoe by 1ctg, on Flickr

Chestnut Canoe by 1ctg, on Flickr

So, what do you think I have here, and what do you think I've gotten myself into?

Chestnut Canoe 2 by 1ctg, on Flickr

 

[Dan Lindberg]

That looks like a nice canoe, and in pretty good condition.

If the only problem is the 4 broken ribs, and you want to paddle it this year, sister the 4 ribs and start using it.

If your looking long term, than a full repair is in order.

Dan

 

[Gil Cramer]

The badly cracked planking needs to be supported between the ribs. Very thin metal cut slightly wider than the gaps between the planking can be cut and slid under the rib edges. If you don't like the color, paint the metal to match the planking. Old fashioned lattice is 1/4"X 1 3/8" . Buy a 6' piece ,cut it long enough to span each the cracked ribs and glue and screw it to the ribs using 3/8" brass screws. Use the canoe until you can't keep it from leaking.

 

[whalen]

Nice canoe. I'll give you $20 for the dog.

 

[Greg Nolan]

Welcome to the WCHA.

What you've gotten yourself into is a pretty nice canoe that needs a bit of work -- sooner or later. Sooner, if you plan on using it for white water and/or for serious canoe camping, or if you just want to have things in tip-top shape and want to spend some time on it now. Perhaps later, if you will be be using it for day trips on gentle water -- ponds, lakes, flat-water streams, and you want to use it right away. You can use it "as is" for gentle paddling; taking the steps Gil suggests will let you use it for a quite a while for most canoeing short of a serious camping trip.

A coat of paint or two is called for before using it -- a couple of easy hours of work, over one or two days, after scraping/sanding away any loose paint. See below.

When considering any repair/restoration work, whether you plan to do it yourself or to hire a professional, there are three good sources of information about canoe restoration that you would do well to get, or at least look at, before making any decision about how to repair or restore your canoe:

The Wood and Canvas Canoe: A Complete Guide to its History, Construction, Restoration, and Maintenance by Rollin Thurlow and Jerry Stelmok

Building the Maine Guide Canoe by Jerry Stelmok

This Old Canoe: How To Restore Your Wood-Canvas Canoe, by Mike Elliott

The first is often called the "bible" of canoe repair, restoration, and maintenance; the second is an excellent study of the wooden/canvas canoe and its construction. The third is the most recently published and has been well received.

Of course, you can always ask questions here on the forums.

If you want to use the canoe after just painting, here are some links to some discussions in these forums about painting over old cracked or chipped paint when you want the paint to last only a season or three or five before re-canvasing:

http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?t=5790 see pp. 2-3 of this thread
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?7769-Painting-over-existing-paint&p=41339#post41339
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?5933-quot-Minor-quot-Restoration-advice-please&p=32358#post32358
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?7775-Temp-repair-to-bare-spot-on-canvas&p=41357#post41357
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?7619-time-is-not-on-my-side!&p=40689#post40689
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?8564-Smoothing-Canvas/page2 starting at post 12, on bondo spot putty
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?6607-sanding-or-not&p=35286#post35286
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?8906-Repaint-Tips

My yellow Old Town 50 pounder (seen in some of the links above) saw 5 seasons of use with old canvas, chipped filler, crackly paint, and a few unrepaired cracked ribs and planks, for just a few hours of necessary work -- light sanding, spot priming, painting with water-based deck and porch paint (and a few more hours just messing around with unnecessary painting of triangle designs) -- I didn't have the time to restore the canoe without losing a season of paddling. Now retired (and having another canoe to paddle) it’s undergoing a full restoration.

Wood/canvas canoes are pretty durable, and they are meant to be used. Have fun with your new old canoe -- paddle it and take care of it.

Greg

 

[caleb]

The badly cracked planking needs to be supported between the ribs. Very thin metal cut slightly wider than the gaps between the planking can be cut and slid under the rib edges. If you don't like the color, paint the metal to match the planking. Old fashioned lattice is 1/4"X 1 3/8" . Buy a 6' piece ,cut it long enough to span each the cracked ribs and glue and screw it to the ribs using 3/8" brass screws. Use the canoe until you can't keep it from leaking.

Thanks, I appreciate the suggestion. Do you happen to have a picture of, or link to, an example of this sort of repair?

Welcome to the WCHA.

What you've gotten yourself into is a pretty nice canoe that needs a bit of work -- sooner or later. Sooner, if you plan on using it for white water and/or for serious canoe camping, or if you just want to have things in tip-top shape and want to spend some time on it now. Perhaps later, if you will be be using it for day trips on gentle water -- ponds, lakes, flat-water streams, and you want to use it right away. You can use it "as is" for gentle paddling; taking the steps Gil suggests will let you use it for a quite a while for most canoeing short of a serious camping trip.

Thanks for all the good advice, Greg. I'll plan to get the books you mention soon, and read through the links as well.

Nice canoe. I'll give you $20 for the dog.

Ha! The original purchase price for the dog was about four of these canoes, but these days he's not for sale at any price.

 

[caleb]

The seller also tossed in three Chestnut paddles that might be interesting to folks here.

Chestnut paddles by 1ctg, on Flickr

Chestnut paddles by 1ctg, on Flickr

Chestnut paddles by 1ctg, on Flickr

Chestnut paddles by 1ctg, on Flickr

 

[Andy Hutyera]

Looks a lot like a 70's vintage Pal with the narrow ribs. A really sweet paddler solo or tandem. Others with more knowledge can likely give you a more definitive answer as to what model it is. In any event it's a great find and should bring many years of paddling enjoyment. The paddles are a great bonus. Enjoy!

 

[caleb]

Looks a lot like a 70's vintage Pal with the narrow ribs.

Is there a reliable way to tell a Pal from an Ajax, Moonlight, Indian, Maiden, or Indian Maiden? I've found myself wondering that with a hull this narrow if I haven't actually stumbled into an Indian Maiden?

 

[Andy Hutyera]

The following may be of some help: http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/5725889
also: http://www.dragonflycanoe.com/id/index.html or http://dragonflycanoe.com/wood-canoe-identification-guide/chestnut-canoe-company/

 

[caleb]

A coat of paint or two is called for before using it -- a couple of easy hours of work, over one or two days, after scraping/sanding away any loose paint. See below.

I've sanded the canoe until the canvas is coming through in spots, and a box with Kirby's paint and brushing liquid should be on my porch when I get home tonight. I have 4" foam rollers and good foam brushes. Hopefully I'm ready.

I'm unsure about how to approach the stem bands. The screw heads are really worn, and I'm not confident I can get them off and then back on while salvaging all the parts. Is taping them off and leaving them in place a good strategy? Or should the bands be removed and then re-bedded after the new paint is applied?

 

[Pook]

Hi Caleb,

Unless you need to replace the stem bands- leave 'em on! You really don't want to remove them until you replace the canvas.
Its easy enough to mask them off and scrape any paint that may get on the bands off with sharp scraper or finger nail if paint is soft. And fine steel wool will polish up the brass bands.
Using advice here and hints from paddlemalking blog http://paddlemaking.blogspot.ca/2016/07/chestnut-peterborough-refurbish-part-1.html i refinished and repainted the hull of my wifes Bobs Special this Spring.

Bruce

 

[robin]

I have the same canoe, it might be a Pal, or maybe a Deer, but I always called it a Chestnut Pal. It has the narrow ribs like yours. I used it for many years for my solo canoe trips and it has served me well. I learned a few things about repairing wood canvas canoes from the trips I took, like applying duct tape to leaking stem bands to prevent the canoe from soaking up alot of water and making those tough portages in Woodland Caribou Provincial Park even more tougher.
FWIW- On my first new canvas I didn't replace the keel and have never looked back nor regretted it.
Good Luck, I think they are great canoes for getting out there.

 

[caleb]

I used it for many years for my solo canoe trips and it has served me well.

Great picture. I've been wanting to get up to Woodland Caribou for years and haven't made it yet. Maybe next summer will be the summer.

You mention using it solo. I realize it's not a very big boat for a 16 footer, but have you used it tandem and loaded? If so, how did it go?

 

[caleb]

Hopefully this is the low point, and it starts looking better from here.

I've sanded the outside of the hull, removed the outwales and sanded them down to 320, sanded the inwales as well as possible while leaving them in place, removed the seats, and recaulked both sides of the keel.

Chestnut surface prep by 1ctg, on Flickr

Chestnut surface prep by 1ctg, on Flickr

(That's water along the keel-line, not a super-sloppy caulking job.)

Chestnut surface prep by 1ctg, on Flickr

New seats, a rear thwart, a yoke, and plenty of good varnish are due to show up next Wednesday. Hopefully between now and then I'll be able to get the hull painted so that it's ready to have the trim reinstalled. Once I'm ready to pull the thwarts I'll see if I can fix the spot where the front deck is separating.

Chestnut surface prep by 1ctg, on Flickr

 

[Andy Hutyera]

Caleb,
FWIW I have paddled mine solo and tandem wth my wife. It paddles nicely either way. Of our 13 or so canoes it is still my first choice to take out paddling.

 

[caleb]

Caleb,
FWIW I have paddled mine solo and tandem wth my wife. It paddles nicely either way. Of our 13 or so canoes it is still my first choice to take out paddling.

That's really nice to hear. I've only had it out solo so far, but I'm hoping to get a feel for it tandem with my wife this weekend on some moving water.

Right now, I'll admit my experience with canoes is generally with hulls most people would probably consider large, with a 16' prospector-style being the smallest, and 18'+ Bells and Souris Rivers on the larger end. I didn't really anticipate how much smaller the 16' Pal would feel than our current 16' Old Town Camper.

Here's how we usually load the Old Town, which is the smallest boat we've used recently:

BWCA w/Erin by 1ctg, on Flickr

I'm not sure that the Pal is going to swallow two adults, two packs, and an 80 pound golden retriever.

We will see where this all ends up after some trial and error.

 

[caleb]

Well, the Chestnut is back on the water with a new coat of paint and some new seats.

My wife wanted it blue, and since this is a temporary paint job anyway she got a blue canoe.

fullsizeoutput_22a by 1ctg, on Flickr

We had it out for four or five hours, and there were no significant leaks. The little bit of water in some places when we finished might have been from tiny leaks, but it also could have just been brought in from our shoes.

FullSizeRender.jpg by 1ctg, on Flickr

fullsizeoutput_228 by 1ctg, on Flickr

The canoe paddled extremely well with two adults and a minimal load. I expect it would be just fine with two canoe packs on a trip, too. I don't see any way we're going to get both packs and the dog in, though.

I still torn over whether this canoe is a "keeper" for me. If I decide to stick with it, I'll go after the repair and recanvas over the winter.