What do I have here???

[Easternrivers]

I know a guy who has this canoe in a shed and I think I can restore it.
Looks like a Peterborough to me. maybe 16 feet.
I don't have any further measurements I'm afraid right now.
He says 1920's which he found out from the curator of the Maritime Museum in Halifax, NS, but how can I tell? I don't see any label on the deck and he did not take pics of the stems inside to see a serial number, but he says there is something stamped there, but he can't read it.

Alot of work, but I need a winter project....What would be a reasonable price for this? Any help please???

 

[davelanthier]

I'm thinking early Chestnut due to the deck design.

 

[WoodNCanvas]

Measurements would help narrow it down....any identifying marks too....such as: any serial numbers (maybe on bow stem)???? Or any company logos????
Looks like a good project....look forward to hearing more....

 

[Easternrivers]

Measurements would help narrow it down....any identifying marks too....such as: any serial numbers (maybe on bow stem)???? Or any company logos????
Looks like a good project....look forward to hearing more....

Best I can get right now, since the canoe is a bit of a drive away is...15feet +/-, and maybe 33in across the gunnels, but of course the outer gunnels are gone. I done see any logos or faded areas to show a logo shape. The owner says there is some fiberglass still clinging to the hull, so I assume someone recovered it in glass at some point. The heart shaped decks is the only identifier along with the shaped thwarts.
Dave mentioned it may be a Chestnut, and I am not the best judge. Would the older Chestnuts have decal logos or plate logos? I've blown up the pics I have as best I could and see no sign of a logo. The decks have a slightly raised carved profile to them as well.

P.S.
I just went to Dragonfly to check the identifying features of an older Chestnut, and now I think that this may well be a pre-1921 Chestnut with the heart shaped crowned decks....We'll find out on Sunday when I pick her up! I bought her over the phone.....I hope that wasn't a mistake!

 

[Andre Cloutier]

Very nice boat, I'd jump at it. Appears to be a Chestnut, and most likely if you are on the east coast. Shouldnt have anything stamped on the stems as early as it appears, however when you get it perhaps take a photograph of the top of the stem where it meets the gunwales under the deck, the early ones are full width at the top before the taper begins. Oh, and photograph the tops of the ribs, its hard to see if they are rotted - it doesnt look like a closed gunwale boat but its hard to see.
Early water slide decals werent very durable, and if it was fiberglassed it may have been sanded and varnished at some time in its life. Bet on Chestnut tho. Price is highly subjective and everyone has their own tolerance for pain, but if it turns out to be a pre-fire boat I'd throw $500 at it if it was solid, they have terrific shapes that were lost when they built new forms after the fire.

 

[Easternrivers]

Very nice boat, I'd jump at it. Appears to be a Chestnut, and most likely if you are on the east coast. Shouldnt have anything stamped on the stems as early as it appears, however when you get it perhaps take a photograph of the top of the stem where it meets the gunwales under the deck, the early ones are full width at the top before the taper begins. Oh, and photograph the tops of the ribs, its hard to see if they are rotted - it doesnt look like a closed gunwale boat but its hard to see.
Early water slide decals werent very durable, and if it was fiberglassed it may have been sanded and varnished at some time in its life. Bet on Chestnut tho. Price is highly subjective and everyone has their own tolerance for pain, but if it turns out to be a pre-fire boat I'd throw $500 at it if it was solid, they have terrific shapes that were lost when they built new forms after the fire.

Thanks for the info....I'm hoping it IS a Chestnut actually as I live in the area where they were first built! Nice piece of history here..
Some rib tops appear to be maybe rotted or at least split up. I need to learn how to best repair those.
From the pics you may see that the stem heads are raised above the decks a bit, but I can't tell if they are square or bevelled.
So they should be square up under the decks? I'll be sure to check.
Does anybody know if the early Chestnuts had closed gunnels or open? Also what colour might have been used for paint back then?
I took the gamble and offered abit less than 300 for it. The owner almost did not go for it, but abit of conversation and he agreed.
So now I need to travel to Halifax to get her...I like this kind of road-trip tho.
Thanks Again!

 

[Easternrivers]

Well I couldn't help but bring this old canoe home with me.
From what I've heard from you folks so far is that it may likely be a 1920-21 Chestnut. I'm thinking the same now that I've done some investigation.
Hopefully you guys can have a good look at the photos and offer your opinions.
The decks are heart shaped and sharply chamfered on the underside.
The stem seems to be more square up under the decks as well, but the last cant rib feels like it is abit wider than the ribs, but maybe not.
Thwarts are nicely shaped.
I think someone tried to do some repairs on this and messed up the outer gunnels. I saw a few screws thru the rib tops. Also has previously fiberglassed this canoe.

No labels or ser. numbers anywhere.
Rib tops look split and a few may be rotted...I did not take time to inspect them that closely.
Specs roughly:
15.5ft (I measured from the stem heads)
Depth at midpoint - 10 5/8in.
Bow and stern look to be 20in or better, I forgot to measure.
Width to planking was 35.5in and a bit. no outside gunnels to measure.
Crowned deck with pronounced chamfer uner the deck edge.
Ribs are 2.25in wide - 1 5/8in spacing.
Caned seats set under the inwale.
Fine entry with a fair amount of rocker.
I think there was a shoe keel at one time as I see putty on the ribs possibly plugging the screw holes.
Planking is interesting in that the width is 3.75" and planks run 8-10 feet.


I did not measure the cant ribs, sorry.

 

[Easternrivers]

More pics:

 

[Easternrivers]

View attachment 16846View attachment 16845Also, got this back rest in the deal. It looks quite old and original!
Can anyone comment on whether this was a common assessory?
Thanks

 

[Andre Cloutier]

The thwarts appear to be ash or oak that was stained, and dont seem to have the traditional shape to them. It seems quite wide, and the head on shot does not reveal any tumblehome which would likely be present in a pre fire boat. They would likely be maple as well. Its entirely possible that it is a Peterborough or a Canadian Canoe Company boat, or a chestnut that has been reworked. Can you post a photo of a run of ribs showing the screw holes for the keel, as well as the stem ends inside the boat, and what material are the seat frames made of?

 

[Kathryn Klos]

The fan-shaped chair-back is a common accessory. Many of the canoe companies had their own version of this item. It seems this type of accessory was often built by a supplier and not at the factory-- for instance, Morris and Kennebec used the same supplier. They are a handy thing and look cool in displaying the canoe.

Kathy

 

[Easternrivers]

The thwarts appear to be ash or oak that was stained, and dont seem to have the traditional shape to them. It seems quite wide, and the head on shot does not reveal any tumblehome which would likely be present in a pre fire boat. They would likely be maple as well. Its entirely possible that it is a Peterborough or a Canadian Canoe Company boat, or a chestnut that has been reworked. Can you post a photo of a run of ribs showing the screw holes for the keel, as well as the stem ends inside the boat, and what material are the seat frames made of?

Theses are the best I took myself. If you look at the first post there is a another 2 views showing the rib layout.
The best pics showing the screw holes is in the previous pics, but you have to look to see the patches of putty in several locations. I agree that it appears that some work may have been done at some point in the past.
Any guess as to the age? I know it's not easy with no serial number to date by.
Thanks for the help.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

"Feels" kinda '20s to me. Seems open-gunwale as there doesn't appear to be evidence of a cap on top of the inwale, unless Chestnut or whomever attached things differently.

Typical color for any canoe is (hang on to your hat for the surprise) dark green! But you certainly could use any color scheme you like.

 

[Andre Cloutier]

All this talk of prefire and so on got me looking again, likely the width is due to the thwart position and the boat spreading- i'll bet there are a bunch of gunwale holes, since there's no way to portage it. If not, its possible its an older boat from Canadian or Peterborough, from the early days. I had a boat we've attributed to Canadian, with heart decks and steel tacks, circa 1916-17 most likely. It dispays many characteristics of an all wood builder moving to canvas boats, still relatively new and unusual to the all wood builders in Ontario. It even has the bevel backwards on the inwales, maybe due to the labour pool off fighting or production on wartime goods and canoes being second. In any event, the thwarts look homemade and nothing like period pieces, and the seats are hung wrong and the bow seat seems really far forward, look for old holes there too. And the thwarts and seats stick out past the rails so its possible they came from another boat, but who knows. Still a sweet shape, i'd take it in a minute if it were closer...

 

[Easternrivers]

All this talk of prefire and so on got me looking again, likely the width is due to the thwart position and the boat spreading- i'll bet there are a bunch of gunwale holes, since there's no way to portage it. If not, its possible its an older boat from Canadian or Peterborough, from the early days. I had a boat we've attributed to Canadian, with heart decks and steel tacks, circa 1916-17 most likely. It dispays many characteristics of an all wood builder moving to canvas boats, still relatively new and unusual to the all wood builders in Ontario. It even has the bevel backwards on the inwales, maybe due to the labour pool off fighting or production on wartime goods and canoes being second. In any event, the thwarts look homemade and nothing like period pieces, and the seats are hung wrong and the bow seat seems really far forward, look for old holes there too. And the thwarts and seats stick out past the rails so its possible they came from another boat, but who knows. Still a sweet shape, i'd take it in a minute if it were closer...

The guy I bought it from said the maritime museum in HFX told him it was possibly Peterborough. I dunno, maybe no way to say for sure.
I was thinking pre-fire Nut cuz of the deck mostly, but also because of how the stem heads were carved and the last planks were set into the sten beneath. I read somewhere that the early canoes(early 20th century) had the stem heads protuding abit proud of the planking as this one does.
So are you thinking its older than 1920's? That would be cool.
Thanks for the input.