Too many nail holes????

[Easternrivers]

I talked with a conoe builder this past week who told me that some stems on Chestnut canoes weere so narrow that the canvasing tacks riddled the stem full of holes and unable to accept any re-do, so the entire stem or most of it would need to be replaced with new wood...
My Playmate does seem to have a lot of tack holes, and yes the top will need to be spliced as it has rotted away..but I was hoping that expoxy wood putty would close those holes enough to hold new fasteners. Or could I use longer fasteners to get down into solid wood?

What to do when the stems are so riddled that tacks /nails may not hold the canvas or stemband securely???Opinions?

 

[Gil Cramer]

Either use bondo, or thickened epoxy. Epoxy is the harder. Fasten the new canvas with 3/8" stainless steel staples which won't split the stem.

 

[Dylan Schoelzel]

Here is a different take.

I would not suggest filling with epoxy or wood filler. The wood filler will provide no holding power, nor will bondo, and the epoxy will crack open when the tack is driven in, especially if the stem was split open to begin with.

You could use longer tacks, but I think you will find that in order for this to work you will have to move from the standard 5/16 tack up to a ½ inch tack. The 3/8 and 7/16 won’t make the difference you are looking for. This increase in length also means thicker tacks which propose a chance of splitting the stem even further.

Staples can be a good solution however the use of stainless steel greatly increases the risk of breaking the tiny drill bit used while piloting for the stem band screws. SS staples also increase the risk of breaking the stem band screw when installing. If you want to use staples, I would suggest using bronze staples which are hard enough to penetrate the stem face but soft enough to have little or no effect on piloting and screw installation for stem bands.

A good solution to all of this can be to glue a few thin strips of wood onto the stem face and fair them in. This will give the fresh wood needed and the holding power required and you won’t have to increase your tack size.

 

[Easternrivers]

Here is a different take.
A good solution to all of this can be to glue a few thin strips of wood onto the stem face and fair them in. This will give the fresh wood needed and the holding power required and you won’t have to increase your tack size.

Well, here is one of those "Eureka!" moments, and why this is such a great place for exchange of information on wooden canoes!
Laminating new wood onto old would work I think. I also think it would be possible to thin down the existing wood so there is no change in the stem profile once the laminates are glue into position, so long as the shaving is accurate to say 1/4inch and you use 2-1/8 in. lams..I like this idea alot!
Thank You....

 

[davelanthier]

Here's another thought. I have found that epoxy or filler just doesn't work as it is too hard. Water proof white carpenters glue mixed with sawdust works great if it is applied to stem cracks the day prior to canvasing. It sets up slowly and is therefore soft enough to allow the standard staples. I never use tacks as this will only promote further cracking of the old wood and there is no reason to use stainless steel staples.

 

[jdm6593]

I have this same problem on our Rushton stems. My concern about filler is that it often only fills the surface, leaving most of the hole empty. I've wondered about using toothpicks in each hole glued with the waterproof carpenters glue. I think I might then follow up with thinned epoxy to sort of bind all of the cracks and softer wood. This would avoid having larger hard spots and shouldn't affect your tacking/stapling. A further advantage to toothpicks is that it would take lots of time and make you feel like a real craftsman! There are so many tack holes in our stems, from multiple re-canvas jobs, that there is hardly any wood between the holes. Other than that, the stems are mostly solid wood with only the tips rotted.

The separate issue of stainless staples: I have heard something to the effect that stainless only works when it is exposed to oxygen, and it is not a good idea to seal it over. I've never quite understood this, for what it's worth, since it is also sealed away from moisture in this case. I have very mixed feelings about stainless. After reading this, I am considering staple for the first time, but the interference with stem band screws is certainly a concern. It seems like a narrow staple would be a good compromise.

 

[frogahern]

I ran into the same problem with a w/c rowboat. Dylan is familiar with it. Over 200 holes were in the stern. I wrote west systems and they said the 105 epoxy would indeed crack. They said their G flex epoxy would not and would hold nails. I have the article and will post it when I find it. Cheers, Mike

 

[frogahern]

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/fasteners-demonstrate-g-flex-toughness/

 

[Dave Wermuth]

I pretty much do it the way Gil describes. Glueing in tooth picks seems ok, as do the other ideas. there must be a thousand ways to skin a cat. I use stainless steel staples with no ill effects. I don't use tacks for attaching canvas anywhere.