Surprise find

[woodworker]

While stripping this canoe i found this under the front seat. Is it normal for all the fasteners to be iron? Dose any one have info on the date when this canoe was built?
Thank you for any info.

 

[Benson Gray]

Nice find, iron fasteners are not unusual, unfortunately. There is very little information available about Robertson's serial numbers. It appears that he may have not have used the same sequence for his entire career. The name stamps, deck shapes, build style, and serial number fonts all show a lot of variation. The only hard evidence may be the invoice below for number 1088 from 1908. That canoe hasn't shown up yet, so we don't have much to go on. The link below has some more speculation.

Benson

J

Thread 'Build period for Robertson canoes based on SN# font/format, Decks, Plaque, Thwarts, etc.'

Sep 5, 2020

Hi,
I’m looking for help in identifying the period, decade or timeframe in which a Robertson Canoe might have been built.

The canoe is a Robertson model, and has a simple thin font SN# on stems of both the bow “o2523o 17” and stern “o2523o”. Note, there is no following length number on stern SN#. Also, “o”s in SN# are really more of an ellipse shape rather than either an “o” or “0”, making me think it is only a four digit SN#. The font used is not the open or block-doubled type such as “A228 35 16”, which WCHA members seem to endorse as grade-SN#-year-length from the 30’s, but a more...

• JFDJr
• history research robertson serail number help
• Replies: 11
• Forum: Research and History

 

[Dan Miller]

That's a Kingsbury deck. Canoe was probably built by Alden Kingsbury and ended up in Robertson's livery fleet.

 

[woodworker]

Do you think when Robertson's closed down, Kingsbury bought left over stock and used it on his canoes? The cap rail (missing) was nailed on.

 

[Dan Miller]

No, because Robertson was the last one standing. And Robertson’s decks were always different from Kingsbury’s.

Also note the detail at the end of the stem- also an identifying feature of Kingsbury’s canoes.

 

[woodworker]

Thanks for the info it is very interesting. The seats fit perfectly made of manhogany . We're Robertson's seats shaped like Kingsbury?

 

[1905Gerrish]

Iron fasteners are generally associate with war times as copper and brass were being used for ammunition.

 

[Dan Miller]

Kingsbury was in Washington State during WWI. In 1946, he built 36 17' canoes with his son, David. These were the last Kingsbury canoes built, and it would be reasonable to guess that they had iron fasteners if the supply of brass was short following the war.

Kevin Martin, in Epping, NH, is the current caretaker of the Kingsbury form.

 

[woodworker]

Well, here is the up date after stripping paint and varnish and removing planking and deck to repair damage.
Dan, you are rightt. The canoe most likely is a Kingsbury. Looks like the cained seats were replaced with solid manhogany ones by Robertson. The wood on the seats is different.
The iron fasteners are screws. Nails hold the deck and rib tops and a few plank repairs .
The rest of planking looks to be copper.
NOW what do I put back? Robertson's replacement Seats or make manhogany frame Cain seats that more than likely was originally built with?

 

[Benson Gray]

NOW what do I put back?

The obvious question is what do YOU want? "It's your canoe" as the expression goes The Kingsbury classified archive at https://wcha.org/classified-archive/Kingsbury.html shows examples of both solid and caned seats. Part of the appealing character of an old boat like this can be some of the modifications that they picked up over the years. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Benson

 

[woodworker]

Benson, I like restoring any project I work on to be completely original. But in this case the seats are part of the over all history of the canoe . If nothing else, a conversation item. They will be stained and varnished to match the decks and thwarts . It makes sense that the repairs done with iron must have been during ww2.

 

[JClearwater]

On the several canoes I have worked on that had iron/steel fasteners none of them were war time canoes. Our 1906 Rushton Indian Girl had iron screws holding on the decks, same with our 1916 Anderson, same with the Brodbeck from 1900+/-, same as our 1914 Morris, and same with the Crandell from 1912+/-, all had steel screws in the decks and bolts for the seat frames and thwarts. On our 1943 Old Town Double End boat some steel tacks were used because of WW2 shortages but all the other canoes were not war time boats. I think iron/steel screws and bolts were used simply because they were cheaper than brass - same as they still are today. The builders never expected their creations to be still around 100 years later so why spend the money on brass. I must admit it is a pleasure to work on an Old Town where all the screws and bolts are brass and they are still in as good a condition today as they were on day one.

Woodworker - just for the record Cain was Abel's brother. Cane is what is used on chairs and canoe seats. Just Saying. By the way you have a very nice canoe and I look forward to seeing progress pictures. Have fun with the restoration.

Jim