Pics showing stem/inwale/deck area

Howie

Wooden Canoe Maniac
It occurs to me that I've never actually seen a detailed picture showing how Old Town or Penn Yan secured the stem to the inwales and, perhaps, the deck.since all the canoes I've restored had this area eaten away. I'm talking about the types of canoes with the tall sweeping ends; canoes like the Otca, HW, Rainbow, Owasco, etc. I've sort of developed my own way is doing it, but I'd be nice to see how it was done in the past - or the ways that you folks are doing it. Any pics would be appreciated.
 
On Old Towns in general, the inwales butt beyond the tip of the deck and over the end of the stem. Two small steel nails are driven through each side of the inwales into the top of the stem.
 
Yeah... I get it. And then the tips of the inwales get sanded down to accept the curve of the stem band. Can't be a lot of material to hold things together. Likely the outwales are significantly contributing to the overall strength. Thanks...
 
I wondered the same thing as the ends on my Yankee restoration were completely gone. I butted the stem tip to the underside of the inwhales where they miter together and joined them with a knee cut from a block.
 
Thanks for replying Benson. This pic sort of does it for me.
Detail Of Inwales At Stem.jpg
I guess I just don't like having the inwales thinned down to nearly a point & each nailed to the stem. I mean, there's so little wood left! I'm thinking a better idea is to add more wood to the stem - either by screws or glue - that would extend under the deck. Then just add a screw through the deck into this extra part. Guess this is what LazyJack does. Next time.
 
This is what Lazy Jack did
IMG_3936.jpg

The scarfed inwhale ends weren't quite long enough underneath to extend to the curvature of the stem, so a block was scarfed to the underside of both and all three glued together
IMG_3943.jpg
and faired in. A triangular knee block was then epoxied to this joint to reinforce it. It was cobbled together as required by circumstance - but that chapter was oh so long ago...
CanoeTrip05-05-13 017.jpg
I'm well into the next chapter
CanoeTrip05-05-13 032.jpg
 
Hmmm... Thanks Lazy Jack. Do you mean to say you glued the deck, inwales, and block to the stem? Not sure I'd want to do that - I'd want to be able to disassemble someday... But in any case it looks to be a nice neat job. Frankly with my latest I'm noticing that the cedar siding provides all the stability & rigidity since they are nailed to the ribs & stem. I'm starting to wonder whether one or two nails or screws from the inwales or deck into the stem are needed at all - maybe they do more damage than good.
 
This problem of tip repairs has been bouncing around the forum ever since it got started. I ran into it when I did my first restoration 20 years ago, before I was a member of the WCHA even and well before there was a forum. The item in the knowledge base by treewater (in which was resurrected an item I posted many years before that in the forum) is a pretty thorough take on the subject. The bottom line seems to be that none of the manufacturers and makers had a great solution to the problem of creating a strong joint where so many pieces of so little wood come together at so many angles. Adding wood is the way to go.
 
[Hmmm... Thanks Lazy Jack. Do you mean to say you glued the deck, inwales, and block to the stem? Not sure I'd want to do that - I'd want to be able to disassemble someday... ]

Why? The only reason you'd want to disassemble someday is if the ends were no longer intact...ie tips rotted away etc, in which case the glue is no longer relevant anyway.

In any case, you could have a Japanese saw through the joints quicker than it took to write this reply, and in the meantime the glue may help exclude rot inducing moisture from invading the joints to begin with.


[Frankly with my latest I'm noticing that the cedar siding provides all the stability & rigidity since they are nailed to the ribs & stem. I'm starting to wonder whether one or two nails or screws from the inwales or deck into the stem are needed at all - maybe they do more damage than good.]

Probably serves more to keep things aligned and stable until the planking is fastened.
 
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