Paint question

Yohawk

Curious about Wooden Canoes
OK, back from a road trip with an OCTA and Chestnut Chum in tow. The OCTA was built in 1964 and the folks I purchased it from say they bought from the original owners son close to 50 years ago. The canoe has been stored in a barn. The canvas is in excellent shape, no tears, loose spots, etc, but it needs to have a seat re-caned and a few paint touch ups. I searched through the forums and it appears using a Bondo type putty to fill the chips is recommended. My question is how should I address the paint along the keel and at the edge of the gunnels? There are a couple of cracks and paint lifting along both and a bit of space between the outer gunnel and the canvas at one end. I'm thinking a light sanding, chipping away of the loose paint, and repainting is what I should do. I'm not sure if I should use any type of caulk or sealer before painting. Any recommendations?



Thanks,
Jack
 
I had a crack between the shoe keel and the canvas on my Chestnut. I had hit an underwater wooden post which slid across the hull and had the keel not been there it would have simply moved on. However, it hit the keel, broke the seal and the canoe leaked through that point. I tried everything to seal it but couldn't and it continued to leak. In the end it was keel off, canvas off, new canvas and no keel. So it may not be a simple fix but not knowing the keel arrangement on your canoe it could be easier to solve.
 
I bit of bedding compound between the keel and the canoe would be just fine to fill minor cracks. Paint should hold with no issues, just give the compound a few days to skin over.
 
I agree Dolfinite bedding compound is great stuff. Scuff it up first. If you need to put a long bead of sealant , 3M4200 fast cure is nice. That's 4200. If you use 5200 you'll never get it off without a jackhammer.
 
Thanks for the input....I've got some bedding compound on the way and have started the spot repairs on the paint. Ordered replacent cane as well. Too bad it won't be here to work on over the holiday weekend.
 
Yo, just a heads up on the bedding compound. Once you open up the can it has a tendency to skin over and dry out...in the can. Before you can use it next time you'll have to separate the dried out top layer from the useable stuff underneath.
What I've taken to doing is opening the can and removing it's entire contents. I bag it up in golf ball sized quantities in ziplock bags. I put the bags back in the can. I'm assuming tha a saran wrap type of product would also work.
For the price of the bjeezly stuff (and shipping) it drives me nuts to waste it... I swear that until I started doing this I threw at least a third of every can away.
 
Thanks MGC, I had thought about sealing the can in a vacuum bag, but your idea of the golf ball size quantities is a good one...then I'll seal those. The stuff is expensive, plus the hazardous freight charge......In any event, I think half the fun is learning what you don't know. In any event, I'm waiting for a couple of boxes from the UPS guy and away I go!!!
 
Where the gunwale has loosened from the canvas, I would remove loose paint, fair any chipped-away paint with spot putty (not the two-part Bondo used for repairing auto dents), sand smooth and paint. With any chips on the body of the hull (as shown in your third picture) I would sand/scrape to remove any adjacent loose paint, and the fair -- either by simply sanding smooth, or if necessary, using spot putty if the chipping can’t be faired smooth with just a little sanding. As this is not a place for water intrusion, nothing more should be required here, -- unless there is actual damage to the wood in the area.

The spaces between the keel and the hull, and at the joining point where the keel meets the outside stems are another matter. (I’m guessing from the first picture that your canoe has outside stems -- but maybe that’s just a joint in a two-piece keel?)

Is the canoe leaking along the keel? If not, you may get away with scraping out the old dried paint and joint compound at crack where the edge of the keel joins the hull, then using a good caulking compound to create a very small, smooth filet which should then be painted -- using an oil-based paint if you use a traditional oil-based caulking compound. I would clean out the joint between the edge of the keel and outside stems as best I could, and depending on the size of the crack, caulk and paint, or if the crack is too small, just paint, using spot putty to try to smooth the joint as much as possible. But because there may be old paint, compound, and dirt built up between the keel and hull, this may not prove to be a lasting repair.

If the canoe is leaking along the keel, just stuffing caulking or bedding compound into the crack is unlikely to solve the problem. Where there is even a small space between the hull and keel, there will be crud in the space that will keep the keel a tiny bit away from the hull, and as the hull flexes (as it will -- just a bit), the crack will reopen. The only way to get rid of the crud is to remove the keel and clean away all dried paint and joint/bedding compound and other dirt from both hull and keel, so you have two clean, smooth surfaces. Place a bedding compound like Dolphinite (perhaps after one coat of paint on the canvas) so that it will fill the space between hull and keel (and between the keel and outside stems) and will squeeze out as the keel is reinstalled. Remove the excess compound and paint, and you should be good to go for quite a while.

If there are cracks/spaces between the outside stems and the hull, I would deal with them in the same way as I would deal with the keel.

When I got my 1931 15’ Old Town canoe, there were minor cracks in the paint between the hull and keel, similar to those shown in your 1st and 2d pictures. For two seasons, I got away with just smoothing a bit of caulking into the cracks and painting. But subsequently small leaks developed, and for the next couple of years, caulking and painting did not eliminate the leaks -- just slowed them down a bit. The canoe is now being re-canvassed, and the keel (and outside stems) will be replaced, properly bedded, and I expect I will have no leaks for a long time.

Removing the keel from a canoe with outside stems is not usually done -- I’m not aware of anyone who has done it.
 
I have not had tha canoe in the water yet, so I don't know if there are any leaks.....wanted to make sure the little details were taken care of first. Talk about self discipline! The spaces between the keel/hull and gunnels/sides are relatively narrow. I will have the bedding compound tomorrow as well as some marine caulking. Today will be spent cleaning/sanding/prepping for the paint touchups. It is an external stem with a bumper strip along the entire keel. The first picture shows the keel/stem joint and the dark area is what I believe bedding compound. When I scraped the outer crust away, it is still somewhat soft. From the condition of the bottom, I don't believe the canoe has seen the water but a few times. The previous owners have had it sitting in their barn, unused. The interior looks brand new. I suspect that when it's all cleaned up, there won't be much need for the bedding coumpound.....I'll save that for the Chum this winter!
Thanks for the input, I'm sure I will have more questions as I progress!
 
As an alternative view, a leaky canoe (within reason) is perfectly usable, just don't put anything in the bottom you don't mind getting wet. Pretty much every summer camp canoe I've ever paddled leaked at least a little. If you do wet-foot loading, you're bringing in water with your shoes anyway. If you have the canoe in the water all day you may want to bail occasionally, but usually the periodic portage dump-out has been more than enough for me. Certainly if you are recanvassing a canoe you should make an effort to make it completely waterproof, but you don't need to obsess over stopping every leak now. Don't let a few leaks get in the way of enjoying what looks like a lovely canoe!
 
A very nice looking canoe. I agree that you should not let minor leaks interfere with enjoying your canoe too much -- water inevitably gets inside canoes -- as long as you dry-store you canoe and it can dry out well between uses. As noted above, I lived with small leaks for a few years with no real ill effects (and I have no idea how long the canoe may have had leaks before I got it) -- but I expect that the discoloration of the hull planking and canvas shown below was caused by leaks -- and discoloration can be followed by mildew and soft, punky wood if water stays between wood and the canvas too long.
sm 100_4411.jpg
stained planking

sm 100_4405.JPG
stained inside of removed canvas
 
No worries, and thanks for the input. The Chum in the background is getting all the use at the moment, and that has leaks at both stems. I have some cane on order for the OTCA and thought I'd get a few of the minor details done first. Still working out how to modify the trailer for the canoe.....it's a bit tight and a bit of load for getting it on my truck. Its one thing to load up before a few hours of paddling and a whole different story afterwards!!!! I never thought that being in my early 60's would bring so many changes.....
 
Think of it that the early 60's are now the early 40's ! My stable now has my 14' Chestnut which is car toppable , my Cedar Rib which is lighter than the Chestnut and for when I need something really light a Bell Chestnut Prospector in Lightning tech Kevlar and a Swift Osprey in Flax Kevlar . I call it forward planning although I have to get all atop a Land Rover.
 
Sport Utes are getting taller. Roof racks are less stable, bars closer together. Cartopping gets worse even without us getting older. One thing helpful is an extension bar to help load a canoe. They are worth the expense.
 
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