LittleRiverBottom
Curious about Wooden Canoes
Does anybody have information on this old town ranger? XTC31206M80F
Just bought it from an older widow who knew nothing about it
Just bought it from an older widow who knew nothing about it
Old Town Ranger
- Thread starter LittleRiverBottom
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Congratulations, the Old Town canoe with serial number 231206 is a 17 foot long, Chipewyan Ranger model. It was built in January, 1980 and weighed 76 pounds. The original exterior vinyl color was green. It shipped on January 17th, 1980 to Shrewsbury, Massachusetts. A scan showing this build record can be found below.
This scan and several hundred thousand more were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others as you probably know well. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will donate, join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-the-wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://store.wcha.org/WCHA-New-Membership.html to join.
It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match the canoe. Page two of the 1980 catalog at https://www.woodencanoe.org/_files/ugd/537308_32a622d59ead4c9c90a0cdc884bedf13.pdf has more details. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.
Benson
This scan and several hundred thousand more were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others as you probably know well. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will donate, join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-the-wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://store.wcha.org/WCHA-New-Membership.html to join.
It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match the canoe. Page two of the 1980 catalog at https://www.woodencanoe.org/_files/ugd/537308_32a622d59ead4c9c90a0cdc884bedf13.pdf has more details. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.
Benson
OP
OP
LittleRiverBottom
Curious about Wooden Canoes
Thanks again Benson you’re awesome! Its got the old town logo but i wanted to be sure of the material cause it’s got a cold crack on the bow i’ll have to repair. looks like i get to learn how to repair royalex. I appreciate you friend
Worth Gretter
LOVES Wooden Canoes
I had a relative who repaired a plastic canoe so I looked up some instructions for him, such as:
https://oldtownwatercraft.johnsonoutdoors.com/us/blog/canoe-kayak-repair-guide
For some plastics, but apparently not Royalex per the instructions, you need to "polarize" the surface, which involves a very quick flame treatment.
https://oldtownwatercraft.johnsonoutdoors.com/us/blog/canoe-kayak-repair-guide
For some plastics, but apparently not Royalex per the instructions, you need to "polarize" the surface, which involves a very quick flame treatment.
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MGC
Scrapmaker
LRB,
If you could post a few images of the damage, we might be able to offer some repair advice.
I've repaired (and also owned) scads of Royalex canoes and generally the repairs are not quite as dramatic as that Old Town kit would suggest. I say that, but one of the hulls I repaired had been jammed into the input turbine of a small power generating station...that one took a bit of doing as the thing had a gash over a foot long that went right through the material. There, patches of woven cloth were necessary to rebuild that shape, but generally, that is not required. That Old Town kit is like a sledgehammer to kill a bug, if it's ever in stock. That one hull aside, I have never had to lay patches on the inside and outside of a boat.....
Most of the simpler repairs may be done (very carefully) with a Dremel and a bit of G-Flex thickened epoxy. I try to open the cracks just enough to give the epoxy a place to bond, but I also try not to cut into the foam core. I use a bondo spatula or the crisp clean edge of a plastic object to force the G-Flex into the hull. I generally mask off adjoining areas so that I don't spread the epoxy mess past where it should be. The G-Flex may be tinted to colorize it if that is a concern. As Worth notes, pre-de-polarizing is not required. G-Flex is a slow cure so you can go back and trim it while it is curing, and also remove that masking before it bonds on.
If you could post a few images of the damage, we might be able to offer some repair advice.
I've repaired (and also owned) scads of Royalex canoes and generally the repairs are not quite as dramatic as that Old Town kit would suggest. I say that, but one of the hulls I repaired had been jammed into the input turbine of a small power generating station...that one took a bit of doing as the thing had a gash over a foot long that went right through the material. There, patches of woven cloth were necessary to rebuild that shape, but generally, that is not required. That Old Town kit is like a sledgehammer to kill a bug, if it's ever in stock. That one hull aside, I have never had to lay patches on the inside and outside of a boat.....
Most of the simpler repairs may be done (very carefully) with a Dremel and a bit of G-Flex thickened epoxy. I try to open the cracks just enough to give the epoxy a place to bond, but I also try not to cut into the foam core. I use a bondo spatula or the crisp clean edge of a plastic object to force the G-Flex into the hull. I generally mask off adjoining areas so that I don't spread the epoxy mess past where it should be. The G-Flex may be tinted to colorize it if that is a concern. As Worth notes, pre-de-polarizing is not required. G-Flex is a slow cure so you can go back and trim it while it is curing, and also remove that masking before it bonds on.
OP
OP
LittleRiverBottom
Curious about Wooden Canoes
ah geez i wish i had checked my email closer, yahoos primary email system confused me didn’t think anyone else had replied to this thread!
I went through with the repair last night using g-flex but the temps were not on my side, i’ve been able to keep it above 40 but not by much lol so i assume it’s still curing but I don’t believe it’ll be successful. I did polarize luckily & did essentially what you described but i think there’s some air pockets i missed.
(3rd picture is just other damage & some screw holes i’ll probably fix)
Attachments
MGC
Scrapmaker
LRB,
I'm trying to absorb what I am seeing. I see the cuts on the top layer. In and of themselves these are not too bad, just ugly. What I don't understand is the clear tape that appears to be covering them and whether or not there is any G-flex in the cuts?
G-Flex is not like other epoxies you may have used. It has a very slow cure time. That is in part why it is so useful for this repair. The slow cure allows it to set with strength and flexibility, unlike box store epoxies.
When the repair is done, you need to fill the voids with it. I would also cut those sharp edges of the peeled back vinyl before laying in the epoxy....
I'm curious about the ring that you are showing that appears to be installed below the waterline. What is that?
The stem damage adjacent to it is minor. I wouldn't worry about it. I would be installing a kevlar stem protecter. That would cover that spot.
I'm trying to absorb what I am seeing. I see the cuts on the top layer. In and of themselves these are not too bad, just ugly. What I don't understand is the clear tape that appears to be covering them and whether or not there is any G-flex in the cuts?
G-Flex is not like other epoxies you may have used. It has a very slow cure time. That is in part why it is so useful for this repair. The slow cure allows it to set with strength and flexibility, unlike box store epoxies.
When the repair is done, you need to fill the voids with it. I would also cut those sharp edges of the peeled back vinyl before laying in the epoxy....
I'm curious about the ring that you are showing that appears to be installed below the waterline. What is that?
The stem damage adjacent to it is minor. I wouldn't worry about it. I would be installing a kevlar stem protecter. That would cover that spot.
OP
OP
LittleRiverBottom
Curious about Wooden Canoes
below that clear tape is the cold crack, i opened it a little bit more using just a knife & osculating saw (i think most people use jigsaw but this blades a little thinner. so yeah i cut it out with the detail saw, beveled & cleaned it out with a knife, hit it with the torch & laid down the g-flex & then put tape over to keep it from running while it dried.
as for the ring i believe that’s something the previous owner installed i can’t imagine old town would do something so silly it’s on bow & stern(i believe gunnels were replaced by previous owner as well but am not certain) . once i remove it & fix the holes i’ll be putting skid pads on for white water.
Edit: stopped at home on my lunch break & i’ll definitely need to do something i didnt get enough g-flex in the crack
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MGC
Scrapmaker
Ok...now I'm with you. Hopefully that tape will come off. I'd remove it immediately if the epoxy has not set. I would also try to fill the cracks more completely. It should come level with the vinyl. The tape I was suggesting would lay next to the cuts to prevent overflow from covering the vinyl.
I would probably remove the rings and plug the holes in the stems.
I would probably remove the rings and plug the holes in the stems.
Worth Gretter
LOVES Wooden Canoes
I failed to notice before that you were dealing with a cold crack. This article from West Systems (Gougeon Bros.) might help:
https://www.epoxyworks.com/index.php/royalex-canoe-repair-gflex-epoxy/
https://www.epoxyworks.com/index.php/royalex-canoe-repair-gflex-epoxy/
OP
OP
LittleRiverBottom
Curious about Wooden Canoes
thank you i think that article is what i needed to read lol. gonna have to cut out the g-flex i just put in on sunday i suppose on account of some air pockets i didn’t see. i’ll probably use a jigsaw like they did to open it up enough to completely fill the gap. i’m also using 655 but it doesn’t look like their pictures idk if i can get it in a syringe, but maybe if I don’t use packing tape like MGC suggested that won’t be an issue this time around.
I appreciate y’all’s advice, hopefully i can get this all patched up & repainted. gonna drill bigger screw holes so it doesn’t happen again too.
MGC
Scrapmaker
If the cracks are through the layers, I would consider that approach, but if the cuts are only in the vinyl layer, I would not use a saw to cut through. That becomes a very invasive repair.
I should have have mentioned that I bring the epoxy to the repair with a syringe. If you need to put a lot of epoxy into the repair, they really do work well. Then I level it with a flat plastic bondo tool or some other similar plastic piece that I make from whatever I have laying around in the shop.
I do not polarize the material. Years ago, that was suggested as a step by Old Town while installing the stem kits. Somewhere along the way that recommendation disappeared. The last 3 or 4 stem kits I installed were done w/o polarizing and they bonded just fine.
