Old Town info
- Thread starter Mattrapp
- Start date
Welcome and congratulations, the Old Town canoe with serial number 170117 is a 25 foot long war canoe model with a keel, outside stems and a floor rack. It was built between May and June, 1960. The original exterior paint color was dark green. It shipped on April 20th, 1961 to Bristol, Tennessee. A scan showing this build record can be found below.
This scan and several hundred thousand more were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others as you probably know well. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will donate, join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See https://www.woodencanoe.org/about to learn more about the WCHA and https://www.woodencanoe.org/shop to donate or join.
It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match the canoe. Page six of the 1961 catalog at https://www.woodencanoe.org/_files/ugd/537308_21a75ca1cddd452fb80d5bd2c384b589.pdf has more details. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.
Benson
This scan and several hundred thousand more were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others as you probably know well. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will donate, join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See https://www.woodencanoe.org/about to learn more about the WCHA and https://www.woodencanoe.org/shop to donate or join.
It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match the canoe. Page six of the 1961 catalog at https://www.woodencanoe.org/_files/ugd/537308_21a75ca1cddd452fb80d5bd2c384b589.pdf has more details. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.
Benson
My guess is that you may have the Old Town with serial number 121701. This is a 17 foot long, CS (Common Sense or middle) grade, Otca model with open spruce gunwales, oak decks, oak thwarts, oak seats, a keel, outside stems, and a floor rack. It was built between May, 1937 and March, 1938. The original exterior paint color was dark green. It shipped in April 4th, 1938 to Binghamton, New York. A scan showing this build record can be found below.
It is possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match the canoe. The 1938 catalog at https://www.woodencanoe.org/_files/ugd/537308_fc6bdabca78f46b594c52de094bf1848.pdf has more details on page five. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.
Benson
It is possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match the canoe. The 1938 catalog at https://www.woodencanoe.org/_files/ugd/537308_fc6bdabca78f46b594c52de094bf1848.pdf has more details on page five. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.
Benson
MGC
Scrapmaker
The number should appear on both stems. If you cannot read it on one, try the other. I have always used a pencil rub with a piece of paper to pull up the numbers. You might try that.
That said, Benson may have landed on it already. It is a 17 foot canoe and it matches the description that Benson provided. How it made its way to Ohio (if it is that canoe) is probably a story.
That said, Benson may have landed on it already. It is a 17 foot canoe and it matches the description that Benson provided. How it made its way to Ohio (if it is that canoe) is probably a story.
There is no build record for the Old Town with serial number 1701 but it was probably made around 1905. The decks on your canoe indicate that it is an Otca model which was introduced in 1908. The diamond headed bolts on your canoe were first used in the early 1920s. Each digit of the serial number is stamped one at at time by hand so it is not unusual to have some digits that are much more clear than the others. MGC has offered some good suggestions. The link below has a few more. Can you provide a picture of the numbers and surrounding area from the other end? Thanks,
Benson
Benson, your latest assessment from the serial number 1701 falls inline with what I was told from the gentleman who restored it for me 30 years ago. He said there were no records and that he thought it was built in 1906. It has been so long I was trying to verify if this was correct. The 1701 is very clear on both stems and I don’t see any sign of numbers before them. Any estimate of its value? I’m looking to advertise it to sell.
Thank you again!
Thank you again!
pklonowski
Unrepentant Canoeist
Value of these old canoes is a question that pops up often here. A very relevant discussion is here: https://forums.wcha.org/threads/how-much-is-my-old-wooden-canoe-worth.57/
I don't think that you are looking closely enough. I have enlarged the image you posted previously and can see serial number 121701 as shown below which matches the build record. An Old Town built before 1906 would look very different from your canoe in many ways. The open gunwales in your pictures were not available in 1905 for example. I'm sorry if this is not good news.
Benson
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MGC
Scrapmaker
When a pencil rub is coming up light, or even (as we see here), missing a digit, a "trick" I use is to use a thinner piece of paper and a very soft pencil. The paper I prefer for these rubs is a piece of thermal transfer paper, so a cash register receipt.
Having said that, Benson has pretty clearly highlighted the number 2 on the stem. That would date the canoe more correctly. It is clearly not a canoe from the early 1900's for a host of obvious reasons, the serial number being one of them. Your restorer was not well informed.
The canoe, as is, appears to be in good useable condition. Whoever restored it for you opted to leave the original varnish on it (did not strip it) and varnished over the old finish. I can see one replacement rib that looks like it was done properly. It is hard to tell if there were others.
My guess is that some of the detail from the numbers on the stems was sanded off during the restoration. It happens. Good luck with your listing.
Having said that, Benson has pretty clearly highlighted the number 2 on the stem. That would date the canoe more correctly. It is clearly not a canoe from the early 1900's for a host of obvious reasons, the serial number being one of them. Your restorer was not well informed.
The canoe, as is, appears to be in good useable condition. Whoever restored it for you opted to leave the original varnish on it (did not strip it) and varnished over the old finish. I can see one replacement rib that looks like it was done properly. It is hard to tell if there were others.
My guess is that some of the detail from the numbers on the stems was sanded off during the restoration. It happens. Good luck with your listing.
Great idea to use the register paper, I will try that this weekend and see what emerges.
The restoration guy I used was Schuyler Thompson from Connecticut as I recall? He had many boats in process when I dropped it off, very impressive workshop to see.
I’m just trying to get accurate information on it for when I list it, I don’t want anyone to have any surprises!
The restoration guy I used was Schuyler Thompson from Connecticut as I recall? He had many boats in process when I dropped it off, very impressive workshop to see.
I’m just trying to get accurate information on it for when I list it, I don’t want anyone to have any surprises!
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MGC
Scrapmaker
Good idea to pursue getting the facts straight. Nothing puts me off my feed faster than a listing that says, "rare 1906 canoe" when it is clearly not. I skip by when I see that. I have learned that helping someone understand what the canoe actually is (and its true value) can be more difficult than doing the restoration. One of my personal favorites was a Rushton canoe the owner was certain had incredible value, despite a very poorly done restoration. She opted to sell at auction, yielded less than half of my offer after paying for transport and fees. The buyer got what looked like a decent deal (sort of) and then tried to sell it for more than double what he had paid for it. It was listed, relisted, relisted again, all for far more than the value.... In the end, he had lowered his price to about what it was really worth.... It hasn't been listed since. Hopefully whoever bought it did not get too badly stung. As you correctly note, having the facts right matters. Benson will get you there once you confirm the numbers.
A side bar. What is it about 1906? It seems like that is the default number that everyone loves to use for dating an older canoe. Not 1905, 1907, or 1911, always (seemingly) 1906. Years ago, that was my trigger to start learning about Morris canoes. Had he built 1/5th of the canoes attributed to him for 1906, his production would have been far more than Old Town and Carleton together............
A side bar. What is it about 1906? It seems like that is the default number that everyone loves to use for dating an older canoe. Not 1905, 1907, or 1911, always (seemingly) 1906. Years ago, that was my trigger to start learning about Morris canoes. Had he built 1/5th of the canoes attributed to him for 1906, his production would have been far more than Old Town and Carleton together............
