Old Town build request #1898 18

[patrick corry]

Benson, I have a short segment of a presumably Old Town stem foot with the number 1898 18 stamped on it. I cannot see any number before the 1898 so I think this is the complete serial number. Or maybe 8631 and the 18 is backwards? The orientation of the smaller loop of the eight seems wrong in the 1898 arrangement, and the 1 numerals appear upside down in this arrangement as well. In my last picture, the number appears to be 8631 if one rotates the picture but then the 18 becomes 81!

This stem segment, along with bow & stern decks, and seats are all I have of the canoe. This is the canoe mentioned in my mystery canoe in the shop posting whose bow deck has the Abercrombie & Fitch medallion. I just thought it might be fun to know about the canoe if it is recognizable from this number. Thank you.

P.S. I know you're likely busy with Assembly currently, so there's no hurry to identify!

 

[Todd F]

On my thumb drive there are a few 16xx build sheets, none that are 18xx. Benson may have additional records.

 

[patrick corry]

I keep looking at it, and now think it's 8631, but the 18 is reversed when reading this way. It would read, 81 8631

 

[Benson Gray]

There are no Old Town build records available for serial numbers 1898 or 1398 as Todd mentioned. The font doesn't match the shapes or size of stamps that were used during that period. It does appear to match the ones for the 8xxx era but the Old Town record for number 8631 shows a 17 foot long canoe so that isn't a good match.

My guess is that you may actually have the Carleton canoe with serial number 8631. This is an 18 foot long, CS (Common Sense) grade, Carleton model with red Western cedar planking, closed spruce gunwales, birch decks, ash thwarts, ash seats, spruce outside finish rails, a keel, and sponsons. It was built between November, 1911 and January, 1912. The original exterior paint color was dark red. It shipped on January 27th, 1912 to New York City. A scan showing this build record can be found below.

This scan and several hundred thousand more were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others as you probably know well. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will donate, join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See https://www.woodencanoe.org/about to learn more about the WCHA and https://www.woodencanoe.org/shop to donate or join.

It is possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match the canoe. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions. Good luck with the project,

Benson

 

[patrick corry]

Many thanks Benson!

Here are the bits of saved pieces associated with the stem foot fragment, from which the serial number 8631 is derived.

Stern seat and inwales; with fragments of a closed gunwale cap:

Bow deck; again, with a fragment of gunwale cap:

Bow seat, found attached with 4 diamond head bolts & cylindrical wood spacers:

Note, neither seat has corner cane holes. Is this perhaps a typical characteristic of Carleton seats?

Last, two thwarts (presumably quarter thwarts since equal length) and a bit of rail:

I read on Dan Miller's site that the Carleton Canoe Co. was acquired by Old Town in 1910, and their factory burned in 1911 so Carleton canoes were built in the Old Town factory. Since this canoe (based on Benson's identification) was built and shipped between November 1911 and January 1912 it had to have been built at the Old Town shop.

 

[Benson Gray]

Yes, Carleton was purchased in March of 1910 as described at https://forums.wcha.org/attachments/43414/ and the article at https://forums.wcha.org/attachments/43832/ describes how the their mill burned in May of 1911. However, I'm not convinced that the Abercrombie and Fitch tag on the Old Town style deck goes with that Carleton serial number. See the first link below for a Carleton with a heart shaped deck and curved carry handle that shipped from Carleton to Abercrombie and Fitch in 1914. Many other builders are known to have made canoes for Abercrombie and Fitch. See the second link below for a nice canoe from the St. Lawrence Boat Works that probably shipped to Abercrombie and Fitch around 1922.

Seats from both Old Town and Carleton commonly lacked corner holes although the binder cane was usually bent around the corner as shown in the images below. Both of these canoes have serial numbers in the 9xxx range. Let me know if this doesn't answer your questions,

Benson

Carleton SN 17 10139

I have taken in a 17' closed gunwale canoe that I think is a Carleton. It has the right decks and the curved carrying thwart just aft of the bow deck. The gunwales are closed with a spline between inwales and outwales rather than a cap, which I am not sure is original construction. Does this...

forums.wcha.org

11 foot canoes for Abercrombie & Fitch

The Assembly theme this year is Solo Canoes and Remembering Tom MacKenzie which may be generating a lot of excitement in the market for small canoes. Two interesting 11 foot solo canoes which shipped to Abercrombie & Fitch in the 1920s have sold recently. The oldest known 11 foot canoe from...

forums.wcha.org

 

[MGC]

The only Carleton's I have owned were newer ones, 1920's. Those had lobed decks. They did not resemble the shaped Old Town style decks.
Would an older Carelton have Old Town style decks as these do?

 

[Benson Gray]

Would an older Carelton have Old Town style decks as these do?

The images below show a Carleton deck from before 1910 with the narrow tag and one from 1912 with the taller tag. Both have heart shaped decks. All of the known Carleton catalogs from 1905 to 1941 show decks like this. They would occasionally ship an Old Town as a Carleton but this was usually noted on the build record as shown below. Let me know if this doesn't answer your question.

Benson

 

[MGC]

Thanks Benson. That is helpful and consistent with what I recalled about Carleton. Patrick seems to have a collection of mixed parts.
I suppose someone eventually going through my shop scrap would find something similar.

 

[patrick corry]

Thanks Benson and Mike. If someone is in need of the A&F medallion for a restoration please contact me. Otherwise that deck will likely become a wall-hanger decoration in my shop.

 

[patrick corry]

The A&F medallion has been spoken for.

 

[Todd F]

Patrick, good on you to pass it on to someone who will use it well.