model and type B M Morris

[fred capenos]

We recently purshased a Very nice B M Morris, (thank you Paul and Martha) and would like to know more about this beautiful canoe. The ID tag is rectangular and the number is 15894. It is 17 feet long, beam is 34" outside. It has half ribs, 25" three piece Mahogany decks, . Mahogany seats, rails. and three thwarts. It also has brass painter rings under the stem bands and both decks have brass diamond shaped flag sockets. I've read that the first two digits may indicate the year built but can't find anything about model and type.

Thank You
Fred

 

[Dan Miller]

I've read that the first two digits may indicate the year built but can't find anything about model and type.

Yes, that serial number scheme was proposed once in the seventies, and we have been working to undo that damage ever since... Morris serial numbers were written about in the December 2007 issue of Wooden Canoe. The upshot is that they were almost certainly sequentially numbered. We don't know when Morris started numbering canoes, or what number they started with. The last canoes built were numbered in the 17000s. These survived the January 1920 fire and were finished by Old Town.

Model A, B, C, etc. refer to hull shapes. Type refers to trim styles. These are summarized in the Wooden Canoe Identification Guide at http://dragonflycanoe.com/id/ (click on the Morris link in the left hand pane).

Dan

 

[Kathryn Klos]

My Dog's Name is Bert

Thanks for this information, Fred-- I'll add it to our Morris Database... it's the 43rd canoe entered, not counting about 20 for which all we have is the serial number without desciption of sn plate-style or deck-style (these came from the Dean article in Wooden Canoe).

Although our database number is low, some interesting things have shown up. For instance, the largest number of canoes in the database are 15XXX. Also, of the canoes in our database, those with serial numbers 13XXX and higher either have long decks or the concave-style short deck (as on the Tuscarora, in the later Morris catalogs).

Your canoe sounds beautiful and I'd love to see pictures. Having the flag sockets and painter rings is a wonderful plus. There's an eBay vender who makes pennants any way you want them, for the front socket (we had one made with Denis's initials)... and someone else on eBay sells the little American flags for the rear socket.

If you use the "search" function above and type in "Morris", you should find other discussions and pictures of other members' Morris canoes.

Kathy

 

[fred capenos]

model and type B N Morris

Thank You Dan and Kathryn,

Based on the Wooden Canoe identification guide, our canoe is a model A Type 3. I forgot the outside stems. FWIW, in the guide photo of the ID placard, (brass plate) the plate is fastened longitudily on the stem. Ours is horizontal, or across the stem. Also, at the bow end on the combing, some one has stamped the following:
B N Morris
Builder
Canvas paddle & Motor
Canoes
Veazie Maine
It looks to me that the bow combing was replaced at some point. The stamping is very crude and unprofessional. Did someone take the time trying to dupplicate what was once there? Also, did Morris use carriage bolts to hang the seats and thwarts Pictures later this week .

Fred

 

[Denis M. Kallery]

Fred,
On all our Morries [4 Morrises and 1 Veazie] the seats and thwarts are attached with an L bolt that is inlet into the inwale and covered by the rail cap. As for the brass plate proclaiming that it is a Morris - I doubt it is original but either Rollin or Dan may have seen something like that. The only other brass plate I've seen on the combing has been a livery tag from the C.J. Molitor Canoe Livery on Belle Isle in Detroit.
Look forward to seeing the photos.
Peace, Denis

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Hi again Fred,

I'll attach a picture of an original decal on Morris coaming, and pictures from the 1917 Morris catalog (from the CD catalog collection available through Dragonfly) which may show your boat.

Sounds like you have a canoe that was all tricked-out when it left the factory, and may have had one of the fancy color schemes shown in the catalog.

Kathy

 

[Dan Miller]

Also, at the bow end on the combing, some one has stamped the following:
B N Morris
Builder
Canvas paddle & Motor
Canoes
Veazie Maine

That is the same wording as on the decal on my Morris leeboard bracket. I've not seen a stamping as such, so your suggestion that it was done during a later restoration to match a pre-existing decal may be correct. This wording also suggest an early teens date, as the motor canoes do not appear in the 1916 and later catalogs (but we have a gap between 1911 and 1916).

Dan

 

[fred capenos]

model and type BM Morris

Thanks ...here are some pictures...if you need any more definitive pictures let me know Fred

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Thanks, Fred... you have a beautiful boat that should be a pleasure to paddle.

I agree that the printing on the coaming appears to be someone's recreation of what may have originally been there.

When I logged your canoe's serial number into our database, I noticed it's only eleven digits higher than Dave McDaniel's Virginia (15883), which has the short deck. With so few boats in our database, it's interesting when the numbers are at all close. 15994 was at the assembly this past July and was also a short-deck canoe (even 100-off seems "close" when we have only 43 in the database!).

Kathy

 

[Fitz]

No leg room

I'm curious so here is the stupid question of the day.

Do you Morris folks have any idea why the bow seat in Fred's canoe is so close to the coaming? We came across a Morris here in MA and the seat was in a similar location with no sign of it having been anywhere else along the gunwale.

Looks like a tight squeeze for the bow paddler.

 

[MikeCav]

Fitz,
Take a look at the catalog reprints above - front seat seems close in the A model - Maybe with the long deck, you can stick your feet underneath?

 

[Giiwedin]

Pennants

Kathryn - can you give us the name of the eBay vendor who makes pennants?

Thanks.

 

[fred capenos]

BN Morris

Kathy and David,
For some reason your last threads came through under Beginner...but I got them anyway. The reason that I asked about Morris' seat hardware is we found a company in Chicago called "Chicagoland Canoe Base,Inc." he's selling 3/16 x 4" carriage bolts "similar to those used by BN Morris, Chestnut, and EM White". I guess I need a third opinion. This is so much fun.... And Kathy our dog's name is Babe like in the Blue Ox.

Later

Fred

 

[David McDaniel]

Morris screws

Fred;
On "Open Gunnel" B N Morris canoes, round head slotted, brass
screws were used to attach the seat frames and thwarts to the
gunnels, not carriage bolts. I realize thay don't look that great
but that is the way Morris did them.
Later Dave

 

[Kathryn Klos]

eBay Pennant Maker

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...STRK:MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=350021352405&rd=1

Sent this lady the design I wanted and told her the color combination, and she did a beautiful job.

I believe there are several people selling the small grometed U.S. flags. There's a very cool thing that U.S. citizens can do with a U.S. flag that has gromets, as long as the U.S. government thinks the flag size is "within reason" (this may be the rub, re canoe flags...).

There's a big wooden boat that's still part of the U.S. Navy. It's name is U.S.S. Constitution and even though it's more than twice as old as our long-deck B.N. Morris, I think it would be cool knowing the flag flying on my canoe was hoisted on "Old Ironsides" for a day... here's the information, but I have yet to follow-up and see if our little canoe flag would fill the bill. Will post what I find out.

http://www.ussconstitution.navy.mil/Flagcoord.htm

 

[Greg Nolan]

no leg room

Fitz --

About the location of the bow seat in long-deck Morrises: just speculation on my part -- perhaps Morris was more concerned with the trim of the canoe than with the comfort of the bow paddler,

or

-- perhaps Morris expected the bow seat in a long-decked canoe to be used a fair amount of the time by someone's sweetie who would not be paddling, but would be facing aft (and maybe using a backrest) and maybe playing a guitar or holding a parasol instead of wielding a paddle -- though it doesn't show a long deck canoe, the cover of the 1917 catalogue shows that Morris was aware of the "courting canoe"

 

[Kathryn Klos]

tiny people?... and a decal

People were smaller back then, too... we now grow larger because we have more free time to spend on canoes.

Am attaching an image of the original decal on the deck of Morris 13809, which appears to have the same wording as Fred's boat. 13809 is a seventeen-footer with open gunwales.

Kathy

 

[Greg Nolan]

This may be in the nature of nitpicking, but I think the second line of the decal may read "Canvas, paddling & motor"

The photo of the decal on my 18 foot Morris, serial 6446, is attached. It is in very bad shape (as is the deck itself), and partially covered by an old mending plate, but on the second line there appears to be a coma after the word canvas, and the word seems to be "paddling" rather than "paddle" (as it also seems to be on Kathy's). The decal would then read

"B.N. Morris Builder Canvas, Paddling & Motor Canoes Veazie Maine"

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Yup

You're right, Greg... I enlarged my picture and made the printing upright, and "paddling" is very clear... makes more sense, too.