Kennebec Morris hybrid

[oldhaven]

I am returning to the forum after a few years absence. I redid a Kennebec Morris hybrid back in 2006 and had gotten the build records from WCHA but the message about it was lost in a server hard drive failure or something about that time. Could I please ask again about Kennebec 9470? Also, I have a 15 ft Kennebec Joy Boy motor boat under repair that is serial number 15 1098, and I am not sure you have anything about those types, but thought I would ask. Also have a Kennebec Yankee Flyer runabout that is awaiting some barn time to work on it, but is in not so great condition. I posted some pictures of the finished canoe back then, so a search under my forum login name would unearth those from the WCHA time capsule. I still have it and use it occasionally.

Thanks for your time,

Ron

 

[oldhaven]

If it helps, this is the message I received in 2004, but this link now refers to a later request by someone else, so the numbering must have been restarted after the records were lost.

Ron
----------------------
Hello oldhaven,

Benson Gray has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled -
Kennebec serial searches - in the Serial Number Search forum of WCHA
Discussion Forums.

This thread is located at:
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?threadid=2702&goto=newpost

 

[Benson Gray]

This forum was restarted in October of 2004 after a crash so any links to information older than that will not work correctly. Your message about this canoe at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?567 from 2005 is still here. The message at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?6872 about the Kennebec with serial number 9476 shows the information about your canoe several lines earlier on the same pages.

You may need to look at the Joy Boy serial number again since their serial number 1098 was assigned to a 18.5 foot long Maine Guide model in 1910, a 14 foot long Fisherman model in 1919 and a 13.75 foot long Autocraft in 1931. Their number 101098 went on a 16 foot long Kineo Special in 1925. Most of the other Joy Boy models identified here have serial numbers in the 18,000 to 30,000 range. See http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?35 and http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?6352 for details or http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?9844 for some pictures of other ones. The tricks described at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?791 may help if the serial number is hard to read.

Benson

 

[oldhaven]

Benson,

Thanks so much for the information and links. I am glad you were able to find the information for 9476 that shows my serial number too. I wonder if 9476 has the splayed stem and other Morris features that mine does.

I looked again at the Joy Boy serial number and it looks like the 1098 is really 1093, upon a very close examination. if there was a number before it, it has gone missing and would have been in the area of a rivet for the keel so there was only a little room for it. The 15 indicating length is on the other side of the rivet. It is possible that I can see a damaged area before the 1093. That leaves about 9 possibilities for the missing character (11093 - 91093, but probably 31093).

The Joy Boy pictures and video are great and will get me inspired to resume work on mine. Interestingly, mine had had the stern sawed off like Jim Steele's from Winthrop, due to it having been stored standing on its end on wet ground at some point. I have the remains of the stern and used it to replace the missing foot of stern and planking, but the video of the one in underway shows some good details. I wonder if Jim ever finished his? May send him a personal if I can figure out how to do that..

I'll crawl under the Yankee Flyer later to get its number. there was another one belonging to a guy in the Gardiner/Chelsea Maine area a few years ago, in similar rough shape.

Thanks again, and I'll get back in WCHA in the new year.

Ron Franklin

 

[Benson Gray]

That leaves about 9 possibilities for the missing character (11093 - 91093, but probably 31093).

The Kennebec with serial number 11093 is an 18 foot long torpedo model from 1916 and the remaining ones do not appear to have been issued since their serial numbers skip from 20930 to 22000, from 30498 to 50000, and from 50289 to 100000. 101093 is a 17 foot long Kineo Special from 1925. The only Joy Boy serial numbers that match the xx093 pattern are 19093 which was 16.5 feet long from 1926 and 30093 which was 15.5 feet long from 1927. The serial number may have been stamped in the stem before the keel rivet was installed over it. Can you provide any pictures of the serial number area and the rest of the boat? Could it be from another manufacturer?

Benson

 

[oldhaven]

Hi,

I am pretty sure it is a Kennebec. I have the "invisible" sponsons and deck off right now but it matched the pictures perfectly when I first got it. here is a picture of the serial numbeer area.

 

[oldhaven]

After looking at the picture, it is possible that the other end of the number is obliterated by a rivet and the number is 1093X

 

[Benson Gray]

I don't see a any Joy Boys or 15 foot long canoes in the Kennebec records showing the 1093x serial numbers. The scans of these build records can be found by following the links at the attached thumbnail images below. These original Kennebec records are reproduced through the courtesy of the Maine State Museum.

The microfilms and scans of these records were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) as you probably know well. I hope that you will join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-the-wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://store.wcha.org/WCHA-New-Membership.html to renew.

It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.

Benson

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Assembly 2016 will feature the Kennebec...hope you can make it, along with your boats!

 

[oldhaven]

Kennebec assembly

Assembly 2016 will feature the Kennebec...hope you can make it, along with your boats!

I hope so too. I could even sneak into the Morris assembly next year with my Kennebec/Morris brother from another mother.

Ron

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Would be VERY cool to have a Kennebec/Morris hybrid at the 2015 Assembly!

 

[oldhaven]

Yankee Flyer tag

I will follow this post with a photo of the nameplate from the Yankee Flyer. I remember asking about this before your server crash without much luck and I am afraid it will be another mystery boat, since the tag does not have a serial number, but a rather rudely scratched in name which looks like R A DuBay. I tried getting into the forward compartment to look at the stem, but cannot get close enough to get a good picture. The reach in pictures I did take showed no obvious numbers, so that will have to wait until further dis-assembly if I get there anytime soon.

 

[oldhaven]

The wonders of the internet were not as developed in 2004 when I last looked, but I just found that the RA DuBay on the tag is Ruel A DuBay of Brownville Junction Maine. I bought the boat in Guilford, and was told it either belonged to the railroad or to someone in Brownville who worked on the railroad or was a railroad engineer, and sure enough, he is listed as a member of the Katahdin Lodge of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen. He died in 1971. How his name came to be on the tag I don't know. Hard to say how many Yankee Flyers were built, but this one's build date may remain unsolved unless I can find something when I get into the bow. He still has relatives there or at least other DuBay's and I may try to get some history this winter.

Ron Franklin

 

[GPEAKES]

Ruel Augustus Dubay was my Great-Great-Uncle. He passed away when I was a young child. He used several different boats on Ebeemee Lake (immediately North of Brownville). I still go to the lake every summer (and am going again next week). I have pictures of Ruel from the early part of the century with various boats - one a speedboat that he christened "Grace" after his wife - it was a nice boat, but I don't believe it is the Yankee Flyer that you have. I suspect that perhaps you may have a later boat that he had, which I remember as a green canvas covered wooden boat with ribbings. I could be mistaken though. I'll try to post some of the pictures that I can of Ruel and his different boats from years past.

 

[oldhaven]

Dear GPeakes,

I can't tell you how pleased I am that you saw my post and sent this information. For me, one of the great pleasures of old things, including boats, (and people), is that they have great stories to tell. Unfortunately, due to the way boats are sold and traded, often their stories will go untold. Thanks to the internet, an obscure name scratched into the Kennebec tag, and a bit of hearsay I remembered from the guy I bought the boat from, I was able to at least guess at some of the history. Now the story is finally coming together. I am sure we would all love to see pictures of Ruel and his boats.

I bought the boat because I saw it sitting at a now defunct boat dealer in Guilford, ME. It was sitting upright and had a lot of water in it, but must not have been there too long, since no apparent water damage happened. This was in the late 80's or early 90's. It still has all the floor racks and furniture. It had been fiberglassed on the exterior at some point and the front deck had been covered with thin plywood. Some other indignities of practical repair had been done that I won't get into, but it was whole. I assume it either was passed through the family or sold locally when Uncle Ruel no longer could use it. The work to be done is pretty challenging, so I think whoever sold it to the dealer was too intimidated to do it. I hope I can do it justice, but there are two projects ahead of it for me before I get to it. I have a Lockwood Chief outboard of that late 20's era that I plan to put on the stern.

Thanks again for writing in, and I look forward to whatever you can find to post.

Ron

 

[oldhaven]

Here is a page from the 1929 Kennebec Canoe Company brochure describing the Yankee Flyer II. This is the one Ruel Augustus Dubay seems to have had and I have now. By the way, several years ago I saw another Yankee Flyer in Maine, an earlier single planked model. It was in pretty bad shape, so I am not sure it is still around.

 

[GPEAKES]

Thanks Ron - that's fantastic information on the boat - I really appreciate the details. I'll post what photos I have next week - I need to retrieve them from the camp up at Ebeemee this week (visiting with my father). He may be able to fill in some blanks on the boat (Ruel was a fixture in my Dad's life for over 30 years). Another fact for Ruel that is appropriate for this forum; Ruel was married to Grace Tufts, who was a niece of Evan Gerrish. Grace's mother (Ada Gerrish) was a sister of Evan's. I have a couple of photos of Evan Gerrish - one as a young man (with his dog), and one in old age (with cats). I'll retrieve/post those as well. Thanks again for the information - great stuff.

Best Regards,

Gary Peakes

 

[Benson Gray]

Another fact for Ruel that is appropriate for this forum; Ruel was married to Grace Tufts, who was a niece of Evan Gerrish. Grace's mother (Ada Gerrish) was a sister of Evan's. I have a couple of photos of Evan Gerrish - one as a young man (with his dog), and one in old age (with cats). I'll retrieve/post those as well.

Those would be great pictures to see. Can you expand on any of the stories about Evan Gerrish? How did he decide to get into the canoe business, had he seen any other canvas or manufactured canoes before building his, etc? Thanks,

Benson