Jeffrey Krull canoiest

[jeffrey krull]

New member with a old kayak
I have always wanted a wooden kayak .About 10 years ago I was given a canvas over frame kayak. Just there was no canvas and the kayak was in bad repair. When I fetched it I found it lying out in the back yard in the weather. I have had it in my garage roof all this time. Two years ago I was going to re build it but as always with my work there is not enough time. I have been trying to find information on the inter net about it and was only able to find out that it could may be a Brandford-Bell and that the design was possibly old English. I have since looked at many other kayaks but something always brings me back to this one. I have decided to tackle it as a first project. It has a number off broken ribs and part off the cock pit strips missing. What I have been looking for is a table of offsets so that I could make new rib replacements. I hope someone out there could please help me with advice or any other help. I would really appreciate it. I am attaching a photo.

 

[Dan Miller]

Do a google search on "percy blandford kayak" and you will find a lot of info. His books should be fairly cheap on the used book circuit as well...

 

[jeffrey krull]

Thank you Dan.I will defiantly go and look on that site.

 

[jeffrey krull]

Good day

I hope that someone will be able to give me some advice and help. I found Pecy Blandford’s site and there was a lot of valuable information. I looked for his book that had the plans in it, but due to the fact that they are now collectors items the price was way out of my budget as the exchange rate between South Africa and the U.K. is far too high.
I carefully took one frame out of the old kayak at a time and then used them to made drawings from each one and reassembled them until I had done them all. I had hoped that I could refurbish the original kayak. I found that the mahogany that was used for the chines was so dry that it started splintering when I removed the screws. The ply wood frames were the same and most off the screws just pulled out of the ply wood.

I don’t want to go the canvas covering over wood frame as I am looking for something a bit stronger. I then looked at the stitch and glue method but still did not want to go that root either. My original idea was to make it along the cold molding method as its strong and looks good as well, with nice flowing curves. I was unable to source veneer in South Africa and so the reason for looking at other building methods.

I will add a picture of my idea. I am planning to laminate two 3mm (1/8 inch) thick and 40mm (1’19/32 inch) wide strips of beach and them a narrower 4mm (13/32 inch) thick by 20mm (51/64 inch) wide strip on top of each other to form each chine. Then glue the 4mm (13/32 inch) thick marine ply between each chine and then come together at the keel which will also be laminated to the stem and stern.

My question is has anyone done this before as I need some advice or thoughts on the building process? The second thing is will it be strong enough? I am going to have a 10mm (25/64 inch) overlap of beach for the marine ply to be glued onto.

My son and I would like to do some river and sea fishing with it once it’s finished in the summer. I have searched the internet to find a wooden kayak or canoe forum in South Africa but had no luck. There seams to be more interest here as the supplies of wood and resins say that they have been having more queries.

Thanks in advance.
Jeff Krull

 

[Greg Nolan]

Some random thoughts --

Historically, small boats built with thin, solid-wood planking have relied on structural strength provided by many ribs -- google "Rushton" to see how he built his canoes, or "Adirondack guide boat" to see how they were built. Without ribs or some other lateral structural system, I would think your method may well lead to a boat that was overly flexible and so not very strong. Stitch-and-glue construction, without ribs, relies instead on the cross-grained laminated structure of plywood (as well as proper overall design) to provide a large measure of its stiffness.

Further, beech is not a wood traditionally used for boat building -- not especially dimensionally stabile, a bit heavy, with no particular resistance to rot. Why not just use marine ply? And without stitching, how would you hold your planking together during construction?

Why not build using wood strips and fiberglass? Spend a few minutes in our forum "Strippers (wood strip and fiberglass construction)." Lots of plans for strip-built boats (not just canoes and kayaks) are available, as is information on the well-established building technique. Properly built, the boats are sturdy and attractive, and can be built from easily available woods (no need for hard-to-obtain veneers).

Also, a one-off traditionally-built wood and canvas canoe is a possibility -- see "Building the Popular Mechanics Canoe" in Vol 7 of Wooden Canoe magazine and/or "Building a One-off Wood & Canvas Canoe" in Vol 134 (April 2006) of Wooden Canoe magazine.

The WoodenBoat Magazine forums [ http://forum.woodenboat.com/ ]are a great source of ideas for building small boats, both using traditional methods and otherwise (stripper, stitch and glue, etc.). Time in their "designs/plans" forum might be well spent.

Why have you given up on stitch and glue, a proven technique for a light-weight but strong boat? Have you considered a skin-on-frame boat using nylon for a stronger skin, rather than canvas? Google Skip Snaith or George Dyson for information about skins other than canvas.

 

[jeffrey krull]

check out my ideas

Good day Greg

Thank you for your suggestions. I have gone and looked at the sites that you suggested. I did look at the strip built kayaks after the cold molding method .I did go and get prices to be able to build the kayak with the strip building method and once they have cut and planed and shaped the wood strips the right shape the price has become out of reach and not financially viable and way out of my budget .We don’t have places that stock all the small boat building types of wood. The problem is that there is very little wooden boat building in South Africa as we only have a few lakes and they are not very big and linked into the sea. For that reason we don’t have wood merchants that cater for boat building. The only suitable wood is a very low quality Mahogany that we call Maranti in South Africa and the quality is deteriorating as we don’t get the dark matured Maranti but the light colored and light in weight. It tends to get brittle and splinter when it gets older.
The reason I thought Beach is that I had some in my garage and its seemed tuff and I know that it is heavy but wanted the strength.

Before I started I researched all the different methods of kayak building.
As I said I did look at the stitch and glue method and realized that it was a fast and easy way to build. The old kayak that I have is a Persy Blandford PBK 57 .I was hoping to rebuild it and keep it looking as if it was canvas covered but with wood substituted instead of the canvas. The reason that I did not go with the stitch and glue was the visibility of all the little holes. The other reason was that I thought that it would be stronger with chines that the marine ply could be glued onto. I read that you suggested using marine ply with out stitch and glue. I did not find this method on the net when I was looking at the different methods.

I was planning to build a plug for the structure and then laminate the beach strips over it. I thought that once the keel, chine’s, gunwales, stem and stern were in I would glue the marine ply onto the over laps of the chine’s. Once I could get that of the plug the idea was to put a bulk head in as number 1 frame and fill it with buoyancy foam. Then have another bulk head at number 2 with a hatch for stowage. From no3 to no6 the plan was to laminate ribs from the gunwale over the keel and up to the other gunwale on the inside of the kayak. Then have two bulk heads for no7 and 8 frames again for stowage and buoyancy foam again. I thought that to finish it of I would add a keelson to strengthen the keel and further support the stem and stern.

Kind regards
Jeff