Following up, 50 Indian Girls have been documented. If my memory serves, only about four canvas-covered Indians are known, and a similar number of all-wood Indians.
OP
OP
Howie
Wooden Canoe Maniac
Ticonderoga - could take some measurements on your Indian for me please. Part of my problem is that the center thwart was missing for quite a while & the whole rail profile was/is 'lumpy'. I've strapped it close to where I think it should be and I'd like to compare it with yours. Starting from the 1st rib at the front and counting back, and measuring at the inside of the rails:
3 - 7 1/2"
11 - 21 5/8"
16 - 26 5/16
21 1/2 - 29 1/8 (mid length)
27 - 28 1/4" (16th rib from the rear)
32 - 23" (11th rib from the rear)
35 - 18" (8th rib from the rear)
40 - 6 7/8" (3rd rib from the rear)
42 ribs altogether
3 - 7 1/2"
11 - 21 5/8"
16 - 26 5/16
21 1/2 - 29 1/8 (mid length)
27 - 28 1/4" (16th rib from the rear)
32 - 23" (11th rib from the rear)
35 - 18" (8th rib from the rear)
40 - 6 7/8" (3rd rib from the rear)
42 ribs altogether
ticonderoga
"Just one more"
Het Howie, My Indian has 4 cant ribs and 38 full ribs . I am assuming you are counting the cant ribs in your description for measurements.
3- 6 3/4, 11- 22 3/16, 16- 28 1/4, 21- 30 1/4, 27- 27 5/8, 32- 22 5/8, 35- 18, 40- 6 3/4. If your measurement for ribs 3 and 40 are different, does this means your decks are different widths? Hope this helps, Joe
3- 6 3/4, 11- 22 3/16, 16- 28 1/4, 21- 30 1/4, 27- 27 5/8, 32- 22 5/8, 35- 18, 40- 6 3/4. If your measurement for ribs 3 and 40 are different, does this means your decks are different widths? Hope this helps, Joe
OP
OP
Howie
Wooden Canoe Maniac
Excellent Ticonderoga. Thank you! I notice that if I rotate your canoe's readings 180 deg (consider the rear the front) my readings match yours perfectly for (my) rear half but mine is 1+ narrower than yours for my front. This is just what I need. Now I'll try steaming the ribs a bit to coax them to want to be in this shape.
OP
OP
Howie
Wooden Canoe Maniac
Not to beat this to death, but I've got more information. I just got myself the book 'Rushton's Rowboats And Canoes' at MGJ's suggestion. Seems clear to me that I've got an Indian Grade B, likely made in 1902 due to its low serial # of 84.
* First, mine matches the pic shown on page 45 of the book. This is the same pic sent to me by Dan Miller in a Thread. Same rectangular seats, same decks. The Indian did not have the trapezoid rear seat as used in the Indian Girl - at least at the time my canoe was made.
* Grade B is described as having '...inwale to which the ends of the ribs are fastened.' Grade A is described as having rabbeted inwales, Grade B doesn't - just like mine.
* The height of the deck tips isn't specified in this book, but mine matches the 24" quoted by Ticonderoga which he says he got from a 1903 catalogue.
* Grade B also has rib caps: 'a thin strip of wood on the outside over the canvas and another on top'. Just like mine. Grade A has outwales 'shaped the same as as (Rushton's) in the all wood canoes Ontario, Igo, etc.'. From the pics Ticonderoga provided of his Indian I gather that he has a Grade A model.
* Grade B had ash for the seats, thwarts, and decks, but mentions that other woods could be special ordered. MGC believes my decks, seats, thwarts are chestnut (nice!).
* A keel was not standard but was available as an option. Mine has a flatish wide keel.
* The book also says that a (floor) grating was also available. I've learned that the fella I bought the canoe from still has this floor grating. I'll be picking it up in a few weeks.
* O - the original color was 'moss green'.
From the pics Ticonderoga (WCHA) provided of his Indian I gather that he has a Grade A model as he has chunky outwales & no rib caps, and his has rabbeted rib pockets as well.
Dan - you mention that you thought that there were about 4 Indians known to exist. I assume that doesn't include mine. Any idea of their serial #s? If not, do you know how I can contact the owners (other than Ticonderoga)?
* First, mine matches the pic shown on page 45 of the book. This is the same pic sent to me by Dan Miller in a Thread. Same rectangular seats, same decks. The Indian did not have the trapezoid rear seat as used in the Indian Girl - at least at the time my canoe was made.
* Grade B is described as having '...inwale to which the ends of the ribs are fastened.' Grade A is described as having rabbeted inwales, Grade B doesn't - just like mine.
* The height of the deck tips isn't specified in this book, but mine matches the 24" quoted by Ticonderoga which he says he got from a 1903 catalogue.
* Grade B also has rib caps: 'a thin strip of wood on the outside over the canvas and another on top'. Just like mine. Grade A has outwales 'shaped the same as as (Rushton's) in the all wood canoes Ontario, Igo, etc.'. From the pics Ticonderoga provided of his Indian I gather that he has a Grade A model.
* Grade B had ash for the seats, thwarts, and decks, but mentions that other woods could be special ordered. MGC believes my decks, seats, thwarts are chestnut (nice!).
* A keel was not standard but was available as an option. Mine has a flatish wide keel.
* The book also says that a (floor) grating was also available. I've learned that the fella I bought the canoe from still has this floor grating. I'll be picking it up in a few weeks.
* O - the original color was 'moss green'.
From the pics Ticonderoga (WCHA) provided of his Indian I gather that he has a Grade A model as he has chunky outwales & no rib caps, and his has rabbeted rib pockets as well.
Dan - you mention that you thought that there were about 4 Indians known to exist. I assume that doesn't include mine. Any idea of their serial #s? If not, do you know how I can contact the owners (other than Ticonderoga)?
OP
OP
Howie
Wooden Canoe Maniac
Saw this Indian Girl on eBay - they claim it's from 1909. I notice that it has thwarts that look to be identical to the thwart that came on my Indian.
I had thought that all IGs had thwarts that were wider & shapelier than this. Apparently not - apparently Rushton changed the thwart shape at some time. In any case it makes me more certain that the one thwart on my Indian (the other was lost) is indeed original.
I had thought that all IGs had thwarts that were wider & shapelier than this. Apparently not - apparently Rushton changed the thwart shape at some time. In any case it makes me more certain that the one thwart on my Indian (the other was lost) is indeed original.
Bar thwarts typical for grade B Indian Girls, shaped thwarts typical for grade A Indian Girls. At least through serial numbers into the 3600s.
This one in your ebay auction is clearly post 1906, and grade B.
This one in your ebay auction is clearly post 1906, and grade B.
Robert P. Ross
Ross Bros
Yes, I know THAT. thanks!
