Hole in a Morris deck

[normsims]

I recently obtained a 17-foot Morris canoe that might date from as early as 1895. The decal on the deck and other indicators say it's an old one.

The problem is that someone put holes through both decks, including a hole right through the Morris decal. I'll attach a picture.

The holes that go through the decks are 5/8 inches wide, and the stem plate surrounding the holes was 1 1/8 inches in diameter. Each one had five or six nail or screw holes.

I'm hoping to find some piece of hardware to cover this unsightly blemish. It was probably a painter ring or flag holder, but probably nothing that came from Morris. He wouldn't put a hole through his decal. Does anyone recognize this or have any idea what would have been that size? Any suggestions? Thanks.

Norm

 

[Benson Gray]

I suspect that these were for flags like the ones shown at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/designs/ud-25-ic/index.html as you suggested. A plumbing supply company may have some similar sized pipe flanges. Another option is to have someone like Bob Lavertue at the Springfield Fan Centerboard company make them for you. Nice find,

Benson

 

[chris pearson]

Just curious, how do you know its pre 1900? Hate to say it, but either replace the decks, or make an intentional patch, perhaps a mahogany inlay in a diamond pattern or something, and reproduce the decal. Sometimes not hiding a repair is just saying it's part of the history of the boat.

 

[normsims]

Chris,

Kathy Klos estimated the age at about 1895. The part of the decal that can be read indicates it's the earliest one that Morris used. Kathy wrote an article in Wooden Canoe about these decals last year. Therefore the decal is important in dating the canoe and I don't want to lose it. All of the indications point to an early Morris: two cant ribs, no sign of a serial number, and this earliest of decals. There may only be two of these decals surviving, although I can't say this one is entirely "surviving." It has not been reproduced.

Since the holes are already there, I'd like to find some way to use them, especially for painters. These Morrises are easier to rooftop with a painter in the deck. Benson's suggestion of reproducing a flag holder might work, or I could have something made in metal that covers the hole but leaves room for a painter to pass through. Somewhere out there, I suspect, is the original flag holder responsible for this damage.

Fortunately the rest of the boat is in excellent condition, considering its age. It was kept for the last 50 years upstairs in a barn.

Norm

 

[MGC]

Sn?

I'm curious about that date...pre 1900's seems pretty optimistic.
But, Kathy has studied the decals and assigned a timeline to them.

Is there a serial number on the boat...stem, rails, under a seat etc. and what is it?
If the pre-1900 date is correct and can be verified to the decal somehow and tied to a serial number that would give another benchmark date for the Morris serial number table.

My deck with a beauty hole bored through the decal is on a shelf in the basement.
I have it tucked away in case I or anyone else ever wants return it to the boat.
The hole is mine is almost an insignificant blemish compared to the one in your deck....

I'm with Chris, put a new deck in it or plug the hole as best you can.

 

[normsims]

If it had a serial number, or holes in the gunwale where one might have been fastened, then it certainly would not be pre-1900.

Perhaps Kathy could address this better than I can.

I'm interested in the history of the Morris boats, so I would not want to destroy that decal. But I don't like the way it looks right now.

Norm

 

[Paul Miller]

Hi Norm,

I have a Veazie Key Hole deck with a lantern base (with the lantern) that leaves the same patern on the deck to include the three screw holes. I'm lucky as they only drilled the small whole and did not inset the base like yours.

So I'm gona vote it was a base for a lantern not a flag pole socket as most of them were smaller, but it could be from a flag pole socket.

I'd put another lantern base or flag pole socket in the same hole. I'll have to find my lantern and base and post a picture. (don't hold your breath).

Nice canoe,

Paul

 

[chris pearson]

I'm not saying to chuck the deck(s), perhaps pull it off and make a nice display for it to show history tied to your canoe when you display it, then put replacements on the canoe with new decals taken from an original.

 

[normsims]

Chris,

Good idea. Beats sanding it off. But so far no one has made a duplicate of this Morris decal. That might be an expensive proposition.

If Paul can find that lantern thing, I'd gladly have one of those made. Given what I know about the boat, a lantern kind of makes sense. I found the canoe in the Finger Lakes region of New York. The grandfather who put it in the barn 50 years ago had moved at some earlier date from Massachusetts. It's possible that the boat was owned by someone in Boston who was part of the courting canoe crowd. A lantern might have been a neat accessory for that group.

Norm

 

[Greg Nolan]

A while back, Benson posted some postcards of the Belle Island canoeing scene --

http://forums.wcha.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=19960&d=1328730269

A number of the canoes in the upper-right postcard, and one in the lower-right postcard have what look like search-lights -- I would guess acetylene, and the mount for one seen in the upper-right card looks pretty sturdy. There also seems to be one canoe shown in each of these cards with a much smaller lantern -- see the canoe in the foreground of the lower-right card.

I would bet that the mounting hardware for the search-lights would leave a hole like the one in Norm's deck.

 

[chris pearson]

Why cover the decal back up? The hole doesn't belong there and I get the "trying to make it work" idea, but the damage is done. I agree with your thought process if it wasn't right through the decal. It would be worth the investment to make or have a decal made and put it on a new deck. Perhaps the club can help out with funding a new decal and sell them? Its what we are all about, right? Anyhow, I'll shut up, just food for thought and it's an awesome canoe either way!

 

[Flyfisher963]

Flag pole

Hello all, that deck impression reminds me of a flag pole socket that I took off an old Trojan cruiser before it hit the burn pile at the boat yard, found the old antique mahogany pole too! I still have the base, the pole went with the sail boat. You can buy these in brass at sailboatstuff.com - I will attempt to post a pic of it here in brass...looks like the exact screw hole pattern too, as for the decal...if someone has a quality pic I can take it to my digital vinyl guy around the corner and see what they say for decal. Would that recreation be angering the Morris Gods??? Think a bergie in the bow and a latern in the stern would look awesome! Killer find! Can't seem to drop the pic, but go to web site and search brass flag pole socket. Jeff

 

[Flyfisher963]

I have seen these available also in Mystic Seaport, both antique and new casted in a more primitive fashion.

 

[Dan Miller]

Chris,

Kathy Klos estimated the age at about 1895. The part of the decal that can be read indicates it's the earliest one that Morris used.

The British invented a printing technique in 1895 that would decrease the cost of producing decalcomania by 80%. However, it would take some time for US producers to adopt the technology and produce them in a widespread manner. I would hazard the guess that this would take place between 1900 and 1905. This is born out by the fact that the Indian Old Town Canoe Company used a metal builders plate, but had adopted decals by 1903-1904. All of the Charles River builders that were building canvas canoes between 1895 and 1905 were using metal builders plates (and most continued to do so well after 1905). These guys were in business to make a profit, not art, and if decals were available and cheaper, my guess is that they would have used them.

Dating Morris canoes is tenuous at best, especially for the early canoes. We have very few hard data points, and have no way to know when Morris decided to start numbering canoes, or how many were built to that time.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

I can't add much to what Norm has said regarding the dating of this canoe. The Morris brothers began marketing wood/canvas canoes commercially in about 1892. Originally, they used a metal plate with the Morris name on it to identify their canoes (three with metal plates are known), but decals became available in about 1895. The decal on Norm's canoe is the very earliest version that has come to light so far. Five canoes are known with this decal. Norm's canoe has no traces of ever having a serial number. It seems the second version of the decal was used while Morris was still building two grades of canoe, because the second decal (the one with "rowing"-- the third version says "motor") is found on a Morris with no traces of ever having a serial number and is second-grade (no mahogany and the seats are slat and not cane). I've thought that canoe was late 1890s, and Norm's would be placed before that one. Based mostly on existing Morris canoes, serial numbering began about 1900... and switching to all one grade and creating the separate Veazie Company happened in about 1905-06.

Kathy

 

[workingbadger]

Tough break about those holes. The damn canoe is ruined. I would dump it as soon as you can. By the way, what would you want for it?

 

[normsims]

More than it's worth!

My plan is to have Tom Seavey do the necessary work on the canoe, re-canvas it, and paint it Indian Red using the color on the Morris paint chip that Kathy found from 1905. Then I'll bring it to the WCHA gathering at Paul Smiths.

Norm

 

[MackyM]

Norm, will it be there this year?

 

[Paul Miller]

I found the lantern and the lantern base plus the flag socket that went in the stern.

The picture of the first deck was the stern deck and that is a hole for a flag socket with a 5/8" hole in the deck and the base of the flag socket is 1 5/8".

The front deck; a bit screwed up by a previous restoration, shows a big recessed hole to accept a base for the lantern that would accept a rod that would curve up to hold the lantern. The base for the lantern is 1 13/16".

I wouldn't be surprised if the deck split on the bow deck because of that major routing out for the lantern base.

I am missing some of the other lantern parts, but would think it would have hung from a loop on the top piece of the lantern which I don't have.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[normsims]

Macky,

Yes, I'm planning for this year. You should come to Paul Smiths to see. But what will the decks look like???

Norm