Help identifying / describing / selling?? 18' canvas canoe

[alfert]

Howdy all. So I'm the daughter-in-law, tasked with helping the folks move this canoe along to it's new home. As you can see, it's displayed on the ceiling of their place near Gaylord, MI currently, but the house is about to be put on the market. What I know: mother-in-law says it's an 18' long "old town" style canoe. Hand painted canvas with cane seats. Grandma purchased it circa 1992 from somewhere in Wisconsin (shop or person we don't know), and had a professional canoe restorer in Marquette, MI restore it. From what condition we don't know, how old it is we don't know, etc. etc. My mother-in-law said Google told her the canoe is worth $7500. ??? I can't seem to find where she came up with that valuation, but you know...now it's in her mind. She also thinks whoever buys the home will go ahead and buy the canoe, which I think is iffy! And since it's 18' long, and even too long for my father-in-law's boat trailer, um...yeah, I'm not exactly sure what their plan is here hahaha.

I'd sure appreciate any advice anyone could give on this particular canoe!

 

[Benson Gray]

Welcome, you may have a tough job to do. The canoe looks like an Old Town Otca model. It appears to have a 17 on the end of the inside stem indicating that it is 17 feet long. The information in the first link below should help you find the serial number. You can post that number here to get a copy of the original build record with the details about when it was made and where it originally shipped. The second link has some information about how to value a canoe like this. The third link shows some classified listings with many similar canoes. Very few of them have an asking price near $7500 so your mother-in-law was probably overly optimistic in her Google search. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions. Good luck with the sale,

Benson

How do I find a serial number on an old wooden canoe or boat?

Many old wooden canoes and boats have a serial number on both inside stems and a decal or tag with the manufacturer's logo on the bow deck. The number is usually stamped on the top of the lower part of the stems. The inside stems are the long curved pieces of wood that form the ends of the...

forums.wcha.org

How much is my old wooden canoe worth?

How much is my old canoe worth? One of the most common questions that gets sent to the WCHA webmasters is "how much is my old canoe worth?" Tim Hewitt's responses over the years have included the following comments: Any wooden or wood/canvas canoe in usable condition is worth $1000 - $1500. A...

forums.wcha.org

Classifieds

www.woodencanoe.org

 

[dtdcanoes]

Alfert, OYE ! Yours is tougher than tough, me thinks, with family , lots of free info etc. Here's some more, I guess. WCHA classifieds will help a lot with canoes in about the same class and time on the list. My bet is somewhere around 40-50 % of " what is now in her mind " and with some work and patience. You may be better of, if free advice would not be taken kindly , to suggest the 7500 being included in the home price. When the family negotiates the sale perhaps she can drop it some 3500 and she keeps the boat. Her realtor would love this , I bet , and alls well that ends well. Maybe he'll but the boat for 2800. What a deal .
Good luck. Dave

 

[Dan Lindberg]

I'm with Benson, you do have a tough job.
It looks like a OT OTCA as Benson indicated, a very common canoe, and having been restored, it's not original.
I think if you got $3500 for it you'd be lucky.
I also suggest it be included with the house, to sweeten the house sale.
Plus you wouldn't have to take it down or handle it.

Dan

 

[MGC]

Benson, Dave and Dan have been very kind. Dave's OYE to the nth.
Not only are these canoes quite available, desirability tapers off as the canoes grow in length. A 17 foot canoe is more saleable than an 18 or 20 footer, but not as desirable as a 16 footer (to most people).
The sting on valuation comes from having a fresh awareness of the cost of a professional restoration, and then accepting the idea that the restored resale value is often only about a third of that cost for the more common hulls.
Without the cachet of a "collectable" builder associated, there is very little chance for the value to approach the restoration cost...
This is in part why many of us do this work ourselves. The material costs are generally quite trivial. The cost of restoration is often fueled by the large amount of time it takes to do well and correctly. It is also why very few restorers are in the business of "flipping" common canoes. You can't get the value of your time out of many of them.
This particular canoe has been given a nice paint job. That helps its resale value somewhat. What is less obvious from these images is how well the restoration was done. The replaced bits of planking really jump out (white cedar where red should have been used) and make you wonder what else there is that would detract?

 

[alfert]

Wow, you all are the BEST! I broke the clearly well informed news to MIL and she was a bit salty, but when I suggested they simply tack some $$ onto the house's selling price on the sly, she brightened. Yes, they too would LOVE to see someone buy the house with the canoe intact. The worry is of course if the new owner wants it gone, it's not like one can just toss this thing in the truck, 'eh?

Also, so...um...hate to ask this, and I did Google, but OYE? Contest clues are letting me down on that one.

As for the restoration, y'alls eyes are muuuuch better than mine if you can see the repairs even from the photos. Who knew? Not me, which is why I'm here. This group is just wonderful, and I truly appreciate all the so well informed advice!!

 

[Benson Gray]

it's not like one can just toss this thing in the truck, 'eh?

Actually, it isn't that difficult to toss a canoe on a truck or car. See the link below for many examples. There are also a variety of options if you want hire a professional to move it. Good luck,

Benson

cars and trucks wearing canoes as hats...

Here is one for ya, Kath......... It is what I assumed to be a JR Robertson..... or definitely a Charles River area build. I did the restoration a couple of years ago. The photo shows it ready for delivery. Bent inner and outer stems for this one. Humbling experience! I was actually going to...

forums.wcha.org

 

[MGC]

Also, so...um...hate to ask this, and I did Google, but OYE? Contest clues are letting me down on that one.

Yes....oye could throw you off....
How about oy vey? That's more on point.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Is this french? I have no idea what this is.

Yes....oye could throw you off....
How about oy vey?

 

[alfert]

Hello again, enthusiasts! So my mother-in-law got up to the canoe and found a serial number. She found the same number both bow and stern. 89095 17.

 

[Benson Gray]

The Old Town canoe with serial number 89095 is a 17 foot long, CS (Common Sense or middle) grade, Otca model with red western cedar planking, open spruce gunwales, birch decks, birch thwarts, birch seats, a keel, outside stems, and a floor rack. It was built between December, 1925 and February, 1926. The original exterior paint color probably looked similar to the one shown at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/designs/design30.gif which was known as the design number 30. It shipped on March 3rd, 1926 to Toledo, Ohio. A scan of this build record can be found below.

This scan and several hundred thousand more were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will donate, join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See https://www.woodencanoe.org/about to learn more about the WCHA and https://www.woodencanoe.org/shop to donate or join.

It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.

Benson

 

[alfert]

Holy crap! I've never heard of that organization and the speed with which you were able to BOOM, here's the invoice, is amazing! Now that I've pulled up that website I can't seem to find where you could search by model number. ??

Again, y'all are amazing - thanks so much!!

 

[alfert]

Passed along the news to my mother-in-law. She was just tickled to hear the info. Her mom bought the canoe and had it up at her place up north, which was recently sold after grandma passed. Turns out the canoe shipped out to Toledo just a few days after grandma was born! My MIL loves stories about heirlooms, so y'all have absolutely made her day. Thanks again!!

 

[Benson Gray]

I've corrected the http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ link to the build record project information above. The paint design is shown at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/designs/design30.gif and the page at https://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/designs/thumbnal.html shows the other designs. See https://woodencanoemuseum.org/index.php/builder-history/old-town-canoe-company for more about the Old Town and the Otca model.

Benson