Finally a canvas for my Morris-and a Gerrish sighting

[Scott Rowe]

My Morris canoe that I reported about here several years back finally got a canvas this weekend! My project which was on and off again finally got to the point where I decided it was time to canvas. No pics yet, still so much work to do. My son and I took the Morris to Pat Smith's boat shop, West Hollow Boat Co. near Bristol, NY and under his guidance and materials we canvased and filled just finishing yesterday. Pleased to see that at this point not nearly as lumpy as I feared. The process a first for us was in my naive impression, nerve wracking and I was glad to have Pat's guidance. Thanks Pat!

Most exciting, was a canoe hanging overhead while we worked on my boat. I asked Pat how many boats he'd worked on over the years and he replied maybe close to 300! I asked what was the rarest of them all, and he replied "probably the one sitting over your head here, a Gerrish"! Imagine my reaction. He will start a bit of conservation on this boat this winter. It is in incredible condition. I didn't take any pictures as it of course belongs to his client from Rochester, but did note interesting details. One was that the rail treatment at the bow and stern did have several wraps of reed/cane but did not wrap around the rail but just the deck tip below. Although one rail tip was replaced previously the other appeared original and had no evidence of having been wrapped. The other detail was that one seat had a sliding set-up for trim. Pat commented that the seats didn't look original but this setup looked old to me. No name plate and only two partially broken out ribs. The information I've gathered from this site is that his boats did vary a lot and reed was often decorative. I hope to send him a few pics I've pulled off this site of seat cane treatment when I mail the canvassing check to him this week. Very cool experience I thought I'd share (sorry if this is old new already reported lol)

 

[Scott Rowe]

I picked up my Morris from the boat shop after the canvas cured for about a month. I have some wrinkles and after storing the boat outside for a few days most wrinkles disappeared. After searching this site for info on wrinkled canvases after performing a canvas fill I decided to use the hot water treatment to try and remove the last of the wrinkles. I had moderate success with the last wrinkle. Visibly its gone but I can feel it. I can live with this. BTW I didn't let the boat soak too long.

This brings me to the point of this post. After filling the boat with water then emptying it, I noticed that water soaked through the filled canvas in a couple spots. The canvas should be water tight at this point, right? So will the primer ( I'll use Pre-kote) be sufficient at waterproofing this small area? Any advice is appreciated.

I believe this happened because of the addition of additional thinner to the filler in this area. Filler was getting real thick and we added thinner. This area where we started using the thinned filler shows up a lighter shade of grey than the rest of the boat. And its this area where the water has wicked through. That's my guess as to why.

 

[Dave Wermuth]

did the wrinkle come out because the wood got soaked with water? In that case once it dries the wrinkle will return. Or was the interior already varnished? I never thought to pour water into a canoe to get wrinkles out of a filled canvas.

 

[Scott Rowe]

So that is the question..will it return. Yes, canoe was already treated and varnished and filled. I researched the site and one thread suggested that before pulling tacks try very hot water in the wrinkle area. My canoe has gaps between the planks in the hundred year old wood and water easily got to the problem area. It is my understanding that very hot water can cause localized shrinking of canvas and reduce the wrinkles. Wrinkles did go away. Maybe wood swelled or canvas shrinked. But after letting the boat dry I was able to better sand the cured canvas and apply pre kote primer without the wrinkles getting in the way. BTW these are not the smile/puckers that I'm talking about. I still have those. I may have to use canvas tacks between ribs at the sheer to deal with some of the worst smiles. Anyone know whether canvas tacks at the sheer between ribs get clinched? Snow is coming tomorrow in WNY and I'm glad to have gotten my second primer coat on before it goes into storage for winter ( no shop and wife wants a fire in three season room). Excited to see this project entering final stages.

PS I can't help but wonder if the water (several gallons) helps the canvas redistribute the tension in areas where the canvas may be sticking to the hull for whatever reason. Just a thought.

 

[Scott Rowe]

Thought I'd follow up on this thread. First; the Gerrish canoe mentioned in the title of this thread turns out to be a Williams canoe from Maine. A fellow builder who may have once worked for Gerrish. A local collector has two in his collection, one with a tag. He examined the boat in Pat's shop and verified it as being a Williams, who was a low volume builder reportedly to have had a shop near Gerrish. A big tell was the previously mentioned seat mount that I thought was for trim, actually it is a wooden bracket that allows the front seat to easily be removed. All his boats had them. The outwales extend past the stem by approx an inch and the reed wraps are different than Gerrish in that they wrap around the heart shaped deck tip and inwale but not the outwale. There are 18 wraps of reed. another thing I found interesting is that the sheer plank is feathered to quite a fine edge where it tucks under the outwale for the entire lenght of the hull. This boat is a dates to approx. mid 1890's. Maybe rarer than a Gerrish?

Also, my Morris project continues, I sanded down the primer yesterday and hope to get another coat on this week.

 

[Benson Gray]

a Williams canoe from Maine. A fellow builder who may have once worked for Gerrish. ... Williams, who was a low volume builder reportedly to have had a shop near Gerrish. ... This boat ... dates to approx. mid 1890's. Maybe rarer than a Gerrish?

Is there any documentation available to support the claim that Williams may have once worked for Gerrish? John R. Williams was listed in the Maine Registers from 1896 to 1915 as a canoe builder in Kennebunkport. This is over 150 miles from Bangor where Gerrish's shop was located, which doesn't seem near by. My understanding is that most of the Kennebunkport area canoe builders learned the trade from Joseph Ranco. His family spent their summers in that area selling canoes and other Indian crafts to the tourists since the 1880s or earlier. See http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/11507/ for more about Ranco. The removable bow seat is a characteristic of both Ranco and many of the other Kennebunkport area canoe builders like Williams. The reports from the Bureau of Industrial and Labor Statistics for the State of Maine reports for 1910 and 1914 list Williams as having two employees. Therefore, a Williams canoe is likely to be rarer than a Gerrish who made canoes over a longer period and seems to have had more employees. However, the demand for a Gerrish will probably still be higher than for a Williams. There were over ten different canoe builders in Kennebunkport and I can't distinguish one from another without a builder's tag. Can you share any more details about how yours was confirmed as a Williams? Thanks,

Benson

 

[Scott Rowe]

Benson, thought this might interest someone. Pat of West Hollow Boat Co. has a few pictures, including one of the metal tag for Williams from the gentleman who has two in his possession. Dont' know what documentation anyone has other than the tagged boat. I suggest contacting Pat directly by email, maybe he can get you the other guys contact info. This BTW isn't the owner of the Williams boat in Pat's shop. Also, I believe he contacted a Gerrish collector during his research (might be from this site?). Love the history of these things!

 

[1905Gerrish]

I did speak to Pat thinking that he had a Gerrish but he did not forward me any pictures. Would love to see some pics of the Williams though.

 

[Fitz]

Here are some photos of a Williams Canoe that was at Assembly in 2017.

 

[Scott Rowe]

I didn't take any pics of the boat at West Hollow (wouldn't without permission), Pat has a few of the other gentleman's boats but he doesn't troll here much. The picture above looks familiar, in that I recognize the heart deck with reed, grab thwart and what appears to be the removable seat mount. Also, I seem to remember keel screws at every rib. The boat at Pat's had some thin babiche (?) on the seats. Also the boat in your picture looks like there is more recurve than this boat but hard to tell from this shot.