Common problems from canoe stored upside down (13' 50#er)

[Daniel Childers]

I recently acquired a 1946 13' Old Town 50#er. Its condition seems to be a very common one for old wood canvas canoes. It appears to have been stored upside-down in the dirt. The tips of each deck have rotted away as well as the top edge along one side. This raises two question for me.

1. How do I determine the correct location of the tips of the deck? Deck, gunwales, planking, ribs, and stem are all rotted in the affected area. I am wondering if someone with a 50#er (preferably 13', and from 1946) could measure and tell me the height at the highest point on each end. That dimension may be consistent regardless of year or length. I don't know if it is the same for both bow and stern. To word my question differently: I need to figure out how much length to scarf onto my stem.

2. What is the best procedure when all ribs amidship (more than 20) are missing about the top 1" on one side? Replacing all of those ribs would entail rebuilding the entire canoe. I'm afraid that I will lose the canoe's proper shape. Or that by the time I'm ready to start rebuilding I'll have nothing more than a pile of red cedar planks. I wonder if scarfing ribs to repair this situation is acceptable? It seems that the gunwale or sheer along that side of the canoe would be rather weak. I'm considering replacing every other rib amidship.

3. I need a pattern for the decks. It seems that (at least some) 50#ers used different decks than other Old Towns. These are semi-circular rather than the standard double ogee. This post [http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?9206-OT-OTCA-17-and-OT-50-LB-11-Restorations] describes the decks for an 11' 50#er in detail. I created an extrapolation from what remains of my decks and it seems that they are longer (but with the same width and semi-circular profile) than those on an 11' 50#er.

4. I also need a pattern for the profile of the inwales and outwales. This diagram [http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/hull-x-s.gif] gives me an idea. I wonder if someone could give me height and width of inwales and outwales for a 50#er.

I have one more question which is somewhat unrelated to the title of the post. I am looking for the length of the thwart for a 50#er. I believe that all lengths of this model had the same width of beam.

 

[frank_a]

Couldn't you could scarf in ribs, doing every other one in the first go-around, and scarfing them at different positions so they're not all scarfed in a straight line? A well done scarf joint can be stronger than original. Once those were done, you could then do the ones in-between that you missed in the 1st go around.

I'm just starting on my 1947 16' Old Town, but I don't think it's as bad as yours. Hopefully more knowledgeable people with pipe in here!

Best of luck to you.

Frank

 

[Benson Gray]

The points on my 11 foot long fifty pound model are about 20 inches off the ground when it is resting level and upright on the driveway. The inside stems are about three feet long when measuring from the end in the bottom of the canoe along the curve upward to the bottom of the deck. Eric Beeby's pictures of his restoration at http://www.wcha.org/Beeby-canoe/intro.html show how the stem, deck, and rails join along with rib scarfing.

My inside and outside rails are both about 3/4 of an inch across on top and roughly 7/8 inches high. All of the outside edges are somewhat rounded with about a 1/16 inch radius while the top outside edge of the outside rails are more rounded with about a 1/4 inch radius.

The catalogs listed these canoes as being 36 inches wide but mine is a bit narrower. The thwart is about 33.25 inches wide and the overall width at the rails is about 35.25 inches as shown below. I dont't have a 13 foot example available so can't measure the deck. Good luck with your restoration and let me know if you need more details from my 11 foot one.

Benson

 

[Dave Wermuth]

here's a photo of a 13' OT. You can get an idea of how it looks. this one will need a little rot repair

 

[Dave Wermuth]

oops. ok maybe this time.

let's see if I can get the image this try.

 

[Dave Wermuth]

Hmmm. ok, one last try, it this doesn't work I can emaill if you like.

 

[Daniel Childers]

Thank you all for your replies and input.

This project (my first wood canvas restoration) has been stalled for a little while. But I think I'm ready to do some more work on it this evening. When I checked back today, I was thankful for your input here.

I have removed the slat seats, outside stems and keels, fiberglass, decks, and some of the rotten ribs and planks (outwales, thwart and stembands were missing when I bought it). I'm still looking for clear spruce gunwales. I'm optimistic since I live in an area dominated by logging, tourism and watersports and since my canoe is only 13'. But I've been unsuccessful so far.

I plan to make the decks and thwart soon.

Dave, I would be really curious about the length of the decks on your 13'er. Mine are about half gone, but I extrapolated what remained to make a pattern. The dimensions of that pattern match the following post, but not the length or angles (my pattern in 10" along each side):
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?9206-OT-OTCA-17-and-OT-50-LB-11-Restorations
I wonder if the 11' and 13' used decks with different lengths and angles because the similar width and different lengths of the canoes necessitated different geometry.

 

[Dave Wermuth]

these measure 10" down the sides and 8" between points. Same for both decks.