Charles River 17 805

[jam010148]

I have a canoe with what appears to be "17 805" stamped on both inner stems. It was identified as a Charles River but may be a knock-off. There was title and registration in PA dated 1940 but age of canoe not identified.
The dimension are 17' length, 32" beam and depth 12". See attached - a very beautiful canoe with long decks and wide thwarts and hand woven seats.
Can you please help to identify?
thanks
joe

 

[Benson Gray]

It certainly looks like a Charles River area canoe. Are there any shadows, nail holes, or other signs of a missing tag on the bow deck or coaming? Can you provide any pictures of the serial numbers from each end? The font can occasionally provide a clue. Thanks,

Benson

 

[jam010148]

Thanks Benson.
I cleaned up the stems a bit and took a few pictures - attached. Also, a note with the canoe indicated that is was restored in 1992 by a person named Graham Ero of Still Pond, MD.
Very enjoyable canoe to paddle!
thanks again & Happy New Year!
joe

 

[Benson Gray]

Kingsbury was known to use a font like that. What do the ends of the stems look like (on the bottom inside the hull of the canoe)?

Benson

 

[jam010148]

Long narrow canoe ends. Please see attached.
thanks again Benson for your effort in helping to identify this canoe (and, many times in the past!!)
joe

 

[Benson Gray]

Well, it has most of the characteristics of a Kingsbury but the end of the stem isn't right. The examples below show the font on some known Kingsbury canoes and how the stems should end. Ken Kelley wrote an article about a Kingsbury in Wooden Canoe Issue number 153 where on page 13 he said "In 2007, the WCHA Assembly featured Charles River canoes. Dave Kingsbury, Alden’s son, was in attendance, and he threw me a curve. He indicated that the Kingsbury canoe had a couple of design features that distinguished it from others. One was that they tapered or shaved the end of the stem at the canoe bottom in a particular way." I was there when Dave said this and he was very emphatic about it.

Benson

 

[jam010148]

Hi Benson - I misunderstood what you wanted me to look for but have now checked against the pictures that you provided. The stem ends on my canoe are not tapered the same as in your photos. So, if not a Kingsbury but same pattern of serial numbering, any thoughts?
thanks again
joe

 

[Benson Gray]

any thoughts?

I don't know the full history of Kingsbury, especially during the period after Alden stopped building canoes. I believe that Kevin Martin has the original Kingsbury forms now so he might have more information. See the page at http://kevinmartin.wcha.org/ for his contact information. Good luck,

Benson

 

[JClearwater]

Joe,
Have you asked Graham Ero if he remembers anything about? A canoe that nice I certainly would remember. I googled him and he came right up.
Jim

 

[jam010148]

Thanks Benson, Thanks Jim
I will try to reach out to both Kevin Martin and Graham Ero.
have a great day!
joe

 

[jam010148]

It appears that Graham Ero is not available on social media??? But, Kevin Martin did respond:
"
I looked at the photos you posted on the WCHA website. From the beam measurements it likely is not a Kingsbury. They are narrow at about 30” at gunwales and 32” at the widest on the tumblehome about 6” down the side. It could be a Robertson Canoe Co., their Robertson model. I restored a few and they had similar flatter decks while many others are rounded more. Some other Charles River builders may have similar models too. Sometimes it can not be determined for sure as they copied each other often.

Hope you enjoy it anyways.

Kevin"