Cecofil & Latex Filler method

[Rollin Thurlow]

Yes, Chris , I've tried many different filling methods and compounds. when Garrett and Alexandra were running guided river trips I would experiment with their canoes, trying different mixes and compounds. I've tried experiments on my own canoes and few selected customers canoes. I don't want to think about the number of canoes that I had to recanvas due to these experiments. I've had great canvasing filling disasters. I've tried the cecofil and latex , different types of epoxy, dacon, Ecofill, and others. Very few lasted more than one canoeing season . They all require their own learning curves and proper application
Todd is correct in that the epoxy filling method has many advantages. There is nothing wrong or false or degrading about using different materials and choosing a building system that makes sense to the person doing the building or the using of the boat. I use the epoxy filling method it once in a great while, most often on larger sq. stern boats and when for what ever reason, the boat needs to be used right away.
Why do I stick with the traditional stuff? It all comes down to my philosophy of wooden boat building. There are endless combinations of different styles and modern materials and building methods that can be used. I like building traditional boats in the traditional style in the way they were traditionally built. If it was good enough for E.M. White and B.N. Morris and Gerrish , that that's what I'm doing. Sure, they built a certain way because that was all they had at that time but that is what now makes it traditional. The oil/silica base filler is as close to the traditional oil/lead base filler as I can get, it gives very good service, can look very nice, and has a proven track record. I use cedar for ribs and planking, brass clinch nails, wood rails, oil the hull and canvas the exterior. All those materials can be replaced to make something that is lighter, stronger, faster, different or more modern. I do find it interesting to experiment once in a while with different materials but basically I build and restore traditional wood and canvas canoes and all that method requires. .

 

[chris pearson]

Hey Rollin, this is so interesting. You don’t hear so much about your experiments and what didn’t work out! Very insightful and thanks for adding your two cents on this forum!

 

[MGC]

Leave it to Rollin to provide that definitive comparison that gives basis to using one vs. the other. The Conover's put some miles on their canoes as well as a few canvases. Who knew Rollin was practicing filler alchemy on their canoes? This is gold.

 

[Dave Osborn]

Worth Getter asked about the number of coats…. Here is my process.
I respect the time honored traditions, but with filler I had some issues, so I experimented on my own canoes before switching.
I thin the Sherlastic Elastomeric Paint to about 3 parts Sherlastic and 1 part water in a gallon can. I add 1-1/2 cups of silica. This mix makes up a gallon of filler. I use the whole gallon on any canoe. The first coat gets applied and pushed into the weave with a plastic squeegee. It dries within a couple hours, but I let it go overnight. From there additional coats are added, drying overnight or applying early and again late in the day.
I apply with a 4” whitewash brush, let it setup a little, then smooth out brush marks with a 4” foam brush until the whole gallon is on the canvas. Depending on length, you can expect 3-4 coats.
After over night dry of the final coat,I use 180 grit on a random orbital sander to knock down the fuzzies. Not trying to make it particularly smooth. Just a once over.
I apply 3 coats of EZPrime, one coat at a time with 48 hour dry time. I apply with a 4” foam Roller and tip it with a 4” foam brush. Dry time is 48 hours, or you will load your sandpaper.
I sand between coats starting with 120 grit on the first two coats, knocking down the high spots and allowing the low spots to fill in.
I use 220 after the final primer is applied.
After fill and prime, use your regular system for marine enamel.
I’ve found this method very satisfactory.
Two reasons I switched from traditional primer is the cure time, and the tendency for traditional filler to want to craze in what I thought was a premature time. When I began experimenting, I wanted a filler that was tough but would be flexible so that it would expand and contract with moisture cycles, be it ambient humidity, an extended trip, rain, or a dump in the lake. So far after many years I have had no crazing or paint adhesion problems.
I still use traditional filler from Jerry if I’m doing a canoe that the customer requires a shellac bottom.

 

[Worth Gretter]

Dave, this is very helpful.
Let me just ask a couple of followup questions if I may:
Before canvasing, so the filler doesn't tend to glue the canvas to the planking, do you use oil, varnish, wax, or some combination?
When you apply the first coat of filler, are you just pouring it from the bucket and spreading it around with the squeegee?

 

[Dave Osborn]

Worth Gretter
i apply the first coat with a 4” whitewash brush, then move the filler around, pushing it into the we’ve found the fabric with a plastic squeegee that is 4-5 inches long. I work in overlapping sections of
about 3’.
I varnish the hull to prevent water absorption into the planking, not necessarily to keep the filler from sticking.