BN Morris info and how we can date them! (maybe)

[Kathryn Klos]

Initially, I began researching the connection between BN Morris and CJ Molitor for an article in "Wooden Canoe" that is becoming book-length, due to "one thing leading to another".... or, "for every question I have, I will discover three additional questions and the first question I had may not be answered."

I will copy a very interesting piece of information found in "The Canoeist's Catalog" by Bill and Fern Stearns, copyright 1978. The portion I will quote comes from an article by Fern Sterns, titled "Three Maine Giants". This is a portion of a letter written by Charles B. King:

"My grandfather, Charles A.Morris, started building canoes when he was about 16 years old. He started upstairs in a shed chamber in the house I lived in for 58 years. As he expanded, a canoe shop was built next to the house; it was three stories high and about 50' by 80' --- the first Morris Canoe factory. Later he and his brother built the factory located where the Stucco Lodge in Veazie is now. The large building that stands there now was the canoe company's office. The company was first named the Veazie Canoe Company but was later named the B.N. Morris Canoe Company. I vaguely remember the factory-- I had been up there many times, but I was only eight years old when it burned down in 1920. My son, who lives in Waterville, has my Morris canoe-- it is 62 years old and still has the original canvas on it.

"In 1926 and 1927 I used to help my grandfather in his old factory (a three-story building on a lot behind where Red's Market now stands in Veazie) as he built racing canoes without any canvas on them. He finished them in natural finish; they could only weigh between 62 and 64 pounds-- no more, no less. They were made for the Old Town Canoe Company, as they did not have the men to do the job right."

So--- In 1978 there was a BN Morris canoe that was 62 years old--- circa 1916--- and IF we knew the serial number, more light might be shed on all Morris serial numbers and how they relate to dating the canoe.

And-- I am fascinated by this older Morris brother who stands in the shadows... and the boats he made for Old Town... what do we know of them?

This coming summer, Denis Kallery and I hope to venture from Upper Michigan to Maine, and our agenda grows larger. I know others have tried to track down Morris information, and maybe we'll hit similar brick walls.

In looking through old issues of "Wooden Canoe", I've noticed that, at one time, those with Morris canoes were asked to send the serial number and model type to someone who was trying to make a registry of sorts. Does anyone know how far that venture got, and if anything was determined?

Thanks--
Kathy

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Another thought...

On page 5 of "Wooden Canoe" issue number 21 (1985) is a picture of two Seliga family Morrises, circa 1909. Undoubtedly purchased directly from the Morris factory. Do these canoes still exist...? Even if no paperwork exists, someone in the family may remember approximately when they were purchased, and the serial number tags may still be intact.

 

[Dan Miller]

That is an interesting passage, and tosses some information into the kettle that I was not aware of. It will be interesting to see if the information can be corraborated by other sources (oral histories, while valuable, are also known to be quite inaccurate. Heck, I can't remember what I had for dinner last night, let alone remember (accurately) what may have happened years ago).

I'm especially intrigued by the claim that Morris built all-wood canoes for Old Town. Attached below is a catalog page from the 1929 catalog showing their one and only offering of an all-wood canoe. As shown, the construction and design are pretty much Canadian in origin, built like the canoes of the Peterborough region. It is also anachronistically late - this style of construction was pretty much phased out by 1929.

If we look further into Morris' activity in all-wood construction, we have to go back to his 1893 catalog, where he does claim to build all-wood canoes (as far as I know, no one has ever seen a known Morris-built all-wood canoe). The models he show are quite possibly lifted from Rushton catalogs. I think it would be a pretty far stretch to believe Morris went from 25 years of building canvas-covered canoes to building all-wood obsolete Peterborough-style canoes when his background was (supposedly) in Rushton-style all-wood canoes...

I also well understand the desire to pin down the exact build-date of a canoe. However, in the absence of either surviving company build records or sales receipts, anything else is going to be hearsay. Folks' memories are notoriously bad, and often rearranged to be more dramatic or romantic...

Cheers,
Dan

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Thanks, Dan--- I know how "creative" memory can be. And maybe Charles Morris was making wooden canoes, but the grandson is wrong about them going to Old Town. I'd sure like to get a handle on the relationship between the two Morris brothers.

~~Kathy

 

[Benson Gray]

There actually may be many Morris and Old Town connections. The first one shows up in the Old Town build record number 65397 as shown below. This was a Molitor model that was shipped to C. J. Molitor and was built with pocketed ribs, and many other features that looked just like a Morris. My guess is that Morris was working with Old Town to supply a long time Morris customer with some specialized canoes that had three foot bow decks and two foot stern decks. Old Town continued to make this model for several years with some modifications and shipped them to many other customers although it was never listed in the catalog.

The next recorded connection appears on July 12st, 1921 with a Morris canoe with serial number 16946 that appears to have been finished at the Old Town factory and shipped to New York as shown below. More information about this batch of Morris canoes can be found at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/morris/records/ and on image numbers 503 to 527 in the Old Town repair record scans.

The oral history that I heard was that Morris was hired by Old Town to help them build the early lapstrake boats and canoes. This would mean that he was probably involved in the all wood canoes from the late 1920s as Dan mentioned and the lapstrake boats that were first introduced in 1932. More information about this batch of all wood canoes can be found below and on image numbers 264 to 283 in the Old Town repair record scans. It is also interesting to note that these canoes were not given serial numbers in the usual Old Town sequence and the build records have very few details. They may have been built by Morris at home.

The Old Town build record database also contains several references to "All Wood" models but I suspect that these were the all-wood sea model boat that was first introduced in 1929. The one attached below indicates 72 inch decks and back rests which would be very unusual on a 16 foot long canoe. It is not clear if Morris had any involvement in the development of this boat but it is possible. More information is available on the build records numbered 110054, 110059, 110063, 110065, 110071, 110073, 110078, 110086, 110089, and 110092.

I have a copy of the old WCHA member's canoe database that shows 50 Morris canoes and some dates but I don't know how accurate this information may be. Let me know if I can help in any other way or if you want to stop by on your trip through Maine this summer. Please keep us posted on what other interesting things that you find!

Benson

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Kathryn,

Check your "Seliga" book and see what Jerry wrote about the 2 Morris canoes. (From the book, page 30)
The 15 fter was purchased by Joe's father in 1905 from a mining engineer at the mine who was being transfered, it is described as "barely used". The 18 fter was purchased a "year or 2 later", described as a "new 18 ft model D", S/N 4101.

The 15 fter was the canoe/form the Joe 1st used to build canoes over, and all of the 16 ft canoe were built over this canoe, most after he re-enforced it to be more suited as a form. This canoe still exists, Camp Widji has it as part of their Seliga collection and they plan to restore it, I don't know when.

Dan



"On page 5 of "Wooden Canoe" issue number 21 (1985) is a picture of two Seliga family Morrises, circa 1909. Undoubtedly purchased directly from the Morris factory. Do these canoes still exist...? Even if no paperwork exists, someone in the family may remember approximately when they were purchased, and the serial number tags may still be intact."

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Benson-- thanks so much for all the interesting information. I've become more intrigued than ever about these two Morris brothers. With what little information we have, it looks like Charles preferred the all wood canoes, while Bert liked the canvas-covered ones--- or perhaps the canvas canoe was simply the more marketable product. But it seems each brother continued to build his preferred canoe type after the fire, and each had a connection to Old Town. I recall reading somewhere that Charles used the name "Veazie Canoe Co" after the fire... and if that's true, it's almost as though there were two Morris canoe companies--- Charles' Veazie Canoe Co and Bert's BN Morris Co--- and the Veazie name only existed before and after the BN Company existed. I keep wondering about Charles' deference to Bert-- or perhaps it was to the type of canoe Bert built, which was maybe more popular. Perhaps BN was the better salesman and promoter and Charles liked to work quietly in the shadow of his brother. Anyway, the more I speculate, the more I want to know... and the more this story seems like something that could be written as one of those historical novel-type things, based on real people and events, with gaps filled in with the what-might-have-beens.

I would be honored to meet you in-person, Benson. If our Maine trip becomes a reality, I'll contact you to see what would work best.

Dan-- I have a tangental connection with Camp Widjiwagan, and will call/write to see what information I can get about the Seliga Morris they have. My husband, who passed away in 1999, spent the summers of his youth at Widji and was a camp counselor as a young adult--- he essentially grew up there, and canoeing at Widji was one of the fondest memories he had-- along with conversations with Joe Seliga and Sigurd Olson (who also had a Morris, as I recall reading). I married Doug late in life and he was sick with diabetes and cancer for the nine years of our marriage, and we never got around to buying our own canoe. There was an OT Molitor we'd drool over at the local sporting goods shop, but it cost five grand and Doug said the aluminum Starcraft fishing boat he already had was all we really needed. So, with seven canoes to my name, I guess I'm making up for lost time!

Thanks! Kathy

 

[Benson Gray]

You may not be able to find out much about the relationship between the two Morris brothers at this point. The reliability of any oral history tends to be very suspect as Dan Miller mentioned.

It is interesting to note that no Veazie Canoe Company advertising was found when Jeff McKeen researched the list of old Maine canoe builders at http://www.wcha.org/history/maine-list.htm and I've never seen or heard of a Veazie Canoe catalog.

I would also be interested to know if Charles B. King is related to the Bub King who ran the White Canoe Company in the 1950s and later moved to the Old Town Canoe Company in the 1960s.

Good luck with the rest of your research,

Benson

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Kathy,

Sense you mensioned it,

Sig Olson's Morris, also I think a 15 fter, (though it could be a 16 fter) is S/N 2972, and is currently owned by the MN Historical Society. Here are a few pics of it,

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Benson-- Thanks for all the additional information... and (once again) answers that lead to more questions... I'll put the King name on my list of things to research.

Dan-- Thanks for the pictures of the Olson Morris. Is it on display at the History Museum in downtown St. Paul?

With the ease of the internet, I'm thinking it might be possible for people to post information about their canoes... for instance, their Morris' s/n with description and picture. We could then do interesting comparisons, like possibly discover the point at which the Morris began to have more of a torpedo to the stem... which would help date those canoes without a s/n plate. There's a big difference between my #3889 and my #15768, but we might possibly find a point in-between where the change was made, or discover that the change was gradual.

Thanks!
Kathy

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Kathy,

I don't think so, the last I heard, which was a couple years ago, it was going to be on display in Grand Rapids(?) as part of a logging/Northern forest display. (because of Olson owning it)

We, a few members of the MN Chapter, arranged for a showing of it a few years ago, and that's when we took the pics. It was in a climate controled warehouse at the time, just laying on the concrete floor.

And your last comment is something I've been thinking about recently too. I'll make a post about it over on the site suggestion section.

Dan