B. N. Morris Canoe Identification

[Dan R.]

Hi All,
I'm making my second attempt at buying a wood/canvas canoe and have done much more research than on my first. Thanks mostly to the WCHA forums and vast documentation.

I have purchased and will be picking up what I believe is a B. N. Morris canoe. I was told that the first one a bought was a Morris but after getting it home and researching more, I realized it was not. It had also been fiberglassed so it is a bit of a project but that is for a different thread.

I will be picking the new canoe up on Friday but received some photos. I wanted to share what photos I have now to see if I can get confirmation that it is indeed a true B.N. Morris this time and any information that people might have. I have read on some posts that B.N. Morris canoes can be intermingled with Kennebecs or Veazies.

It supposedly does not have a serial number but has a partial deck logo.

It is 17 feet long with a 34" beam.

Thank you for the help!
Dan R.

 

[Michael Grace]

Hi Dan. Congratulations on your canoe purchase. Yes, this is a Morris and it looks to be in good, original condition. The floor rack is still there, which is good (they are often missing). The deck cleats are not original and I doubt the other deck hardware is either (looks like a circular flagstaff socket). Those are probably original seat frames under the fabric. Thwarts look original too. It looks like a great canoe, but I wonder about the (literal) shape of the hull. Photos can cause the appearance of distortion but given what appears to be dirt in the bilge on one side, I wonder if the hull has been mis-shaped by being left up on one side for a long time. In the third image, the port side appears abnormally flat while the starboard side appears to be abnormally bulged out. Is this real? In any case, congratulations on finally getting the Morris you wanted in the first place.

 

[Dan R.]

Yikes! I hope that is not the case but I do see the strangeness you point out. Hoping it is just the photo. I didn't even think that was something to look for. I have a lot to learn with wood canoes.

If that is the case, is it fixable or is this a dead duck?

 

[Dan R.]

Hi Michael,
I'm happy to inform that the hull is not mis-shaped. It was just distortion in the photos. That said, there are two spots where it appears it took a bump. Otherwise, she appears to be in very good shape through the eyes of someone new to this game.
One about 3 feet back from the bow where there are a few cracked planks, ribs appear to be solid.
One at the stern, just before the stem, where one side is pushed in about a half inch and the other pushed out the same, stem seems to be solid but looks out of whack due to the planking shifted.
It did have a serial number plate as well, #5272.

Dimensions are,
17 feet long
34" on rail
37" extreme
13" depth at center

Going by the information on the WCHA museum website, I believe it is the following.

B.N. Morris built in 1908
Model B 74, Type 1

Any additional input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[MGC]

Congratulations Dan. Morris are nice old canoes. Yours appears to be in decent shape.
The site where you looked up the date is not actually a WCHA site. You should take a few minutes to look over the collection that Dan Miller has assembled and as many of us have, consider making a donation to his efforts. WCHA is not as focused on the details as Dan so he provides an extremely valuable resource.
You asked for additional input so just a few points out of the many you will eventually assimilate as a Morris owner.
The Morris Dating Table is a quasi-crude but reasonably good estimator of canoe construction dates. It replaces previous ad hoc methods that always seemed to conclude that every Morris was built in 1906. Well not really, but it seemed that way. There were also quackery serial number decoding theories that it has replaced.
The table as it exists draws upon a handful of solid benchmark dates, a handful of reasonable but unproven assumptions, a bit of probability and regression analysis, a look at the numbers of builds from other period manufacturers while taking into consideration some of what we know about the US economy in the subject years, a bit of common sense and logic, yada, yada, yada.
In Kathy Klos book where this table was published, many of the assumptions that I made were not mentioned. It allows a reader to conclude that the table is more than what it is. If you take the time to dig on this site, you can still find (you will need to dig) some of the discussion surrounding the release of the table and also the assumptions that I made to create it. And, you may conclude as you should that your canoe is built circa 1906 and that might mean 1905 and it might mean 1907. Circa is the key detail to become aware of when you describe your own Morris. Having said all of that, I do have some more recent and helpful information that I plan to use to true up the dates. Hopefully I will find the time to sort this again in the next few months. There will not be drastic resulting changes, but some of the dates in the early teens may need a bit of a shift.

The next thing....you have original decks and also an intact decal. There are different schools of though about this but preserving what is there and original is hopefully possible. It is not as easy to restore an old deck while leaving the decal in place and sometimes it proves to be impossible. If you can achieve it though, that is an accomplishment. To my eye, an original, albeit haggard old decal is far more interesting than modern replacement copy.

All of that said, it is your canoe to restore as you please so do what makes sense to you, and above all, paddle it. These old Morris canoes are really great paddling boats.
Congratulations on a good score.

 

[Dan R.]

Thanks for all the info MGC and sorry for the super delay. I am very excited about the new canoe and was able to paddle on Thanksgiving. Unfortunately for me, I was somehow put on baby duty and only paddle for about 10 minutes... My wife and 3 year old paddled it for an hour and told me how much they enjoyed it and how different it paddles compared to our non-wood canvas canoes. I think they just wanted to paddle the canoe, who wouldn't! The next outing I'm not giving up my paddle.

The next thing....you have original decks and also an intact decal. There are different schools of though about this but preserving what is there and original is hopefully possible. It is not as easy to restore an old deck while leaving the decal in place and sometimes it proves to be impossible. If you can achieve it though, that is an accomplishment. To my eye, an original, albeit haggard old decal is far more interesting than modern replacement copy.

It's funny that you brought this up. This is one of the first things that came to mind. Although it seems counterintuitive, I briefly considered removing the original deck and replacing with a replica so that the original would not deteriorate further. However, then the canoe would not be original wood. Do you have tips on preserving an original deck?

As I expected, it does leak but happily only a small amount of water. After a little over an hour there was some water in between a few ribs but no more than fishing would bring in. I don't want to replace the canvas at this time as I want to hone my skills on a boat that is not an original Morris. Does anyone have tips to refinish and paint the canvas? I have read quite a few posts regarding this on the site but wanted to give my owns boats details.

The canvas is tight against the hull and does not have any rips. There are some areas that need help.
1. There is one spot of canvas, 1 inch x 1 inch that is missing but above the water line. I have read that tucking a thin piece of cloth under the existing canvas that spans the hole is a good method. Then fill the hole with canvas filler. I think this is the method I will try.
2. Some spots, there is paint that looks almost smeared and raised. I'm not sure how this happened unless someone was just careless during painting. I'm thinking I'll sand down the high spots and repaint exposed filler.
3. Some spots have scrapes that go down to the canvas. For these, can I just level with canvas filler and paint over?

Thanks for the help!
Dan

 

[Todd F]

Dan, mind posting pictures of the areas you mentioned above? Thanks

 

[MGC]

As Todd noted, pictures would help us steer you in the right direction. There are many tricks to making a canvas limp along for a while longer. Duct tape is the most obvious one.
Patches are easy to do. You can massage in a bit of leveler of some type. You might sand and re-paint.
All are a means to avoid the inevitable, putting on fresh canvas.
Greg Nolan has posted often about prolonging the life of a canvas. Here is a link to some related discussion. https://forums.wcha.org/threads/restoring-the-canvas.9173/#post-48870 There is plenty more if you search.

It's interesting to hear about the contrast of paddling wood and canvas vs. modern hulls. It is night and day. A number of years ago after a route with 11 miles of carrying over 3 days I decided it was time for Kevlar. I bought a Prospector hull Swift canoe. We also have a Chestnut Prospector. We hate (literally hate) paddling the modern hull and absolutely love the Chestnut.

 

[Dan R.]

Todd and MGC,

Here are some pictures. In order of posted, Canvas repair, paint repair surface, paint repair down to canvas, keel.

I plan to do a new canvas when my skills improve and am just trying to get by for a year or two on repairs. I picked up a no-name wood canvas prior to the Morris that has been fiberglassed. Ribs and planking are not too bad but it needs much more love than the Morris. That will be my practice piece.

It is definitely very different. This is my first wood canvas but I've done a lot of paddling with fiberglass and plastics of different shapes, weights, and lengths. What was most shocking to me was that my wife and son were able to paddle the canoe, with a decent headwind at times, from in front of the mid-point while I sat in the stern with the baby. Granted it is keeled but I was still impressed. My wife said it felt like her energy was better transitioning into the paddle and forward motion than in our other canoes. That it was heavier to get moving but once you were going it was less effort to get to your destination. Sitting in the back, it seemed that their paddling was causing minimal rocking the boat.

MGC, are you a canoe camper? 11 miles of carrying over 3 days sounds interesting.

 

[Michael Grace]

Hi Dan,

There's no question that it's time for this canoe to have a new canvas, but of course you can push it out further if you wish. Whenever you do get around to the Morris, a full restoration will give you not only a gorgeous canoe but also one that is more structurally sound and one that keeps the water at bay. You might find someone near you that can help you with canvassing. There are quite a few active WCHA member-restorers in and around Massachusetts. It is daunting to a first-timer but after re-canvassing, you'll find that it was more doable than expected (especially if you have someone to guide you through it).

Like Mike, many among us here are canoe campers. I've logged countless days and nights on rivers and lakes across North America, South America and Australia but it doesn't matter whether it's in your backyard or far away - trekking the wilds by canoe is a magical thing. You should be able to search up some great trip stories here, and more are published in the journal, Wooden Canoe.

 

[MGC]

Dan,
As noted by Michael, the general consensus will be its time. Your canoe is due for an overhaul. Canvasing is surprisingly easy, but as anyone who has ever worked on a canoe will tell you, there is always more to the job than you anticipated.
With a Morris you may need to learn about how to install rivets. Your stem bands should be held on with these. The cedar stem is sometimes in rough shape and may require splicing/surgery. The inside rails on these can get punky. A rail repair with pocketed rails is a bit of a challenge.
I think Michael's advice to seek out the local WCHA chapter is spot on. Someone who has done these repairs will be able to save you time and anxiety.
My wife and I love to paddle. When our children were small they had no idea that you could stay in hotels the whole time you were on vacation, not just for the last day to take showers before heading back home. We do it less now than we did, but we still plan a few nights in the tent and some days making miles on the water, or on the carries. A Morris was our go to canoe for many years once the boys were able to paddle their own boat. We've since developed a fondness for a Rushton but that Morris still has many more miles of memories. One of my favorites was when my older son was able to shoulder it on his own and I no longer needed to carry two canoes at every carry. Watching him go up the trail with that on his shoulders brought me to tears. I carried with Ripple playing through my head the entire time.
These boats are meant to be used.

 

[Dan R.]

Thank you for the info MGC and Michael. I took your advice and reached out to the local chapters. There may be a canvassing party happening not far from where I live which would be a great intro for me to understand the process first hand rather than books and youtube videos. Which are great for their purpose!

MGC, I want to circle back to your comment earlier regarding preserving the original decks. Have you had success doing this?

I don't see a way around keeping original canvas indefinitely, I'm not sure that would be a good idea even if possible, but I would like to keep as much of the wood original as possible. The wood, to me, looks like it can be preserved and even the gunwales don't appear to require replacement. They won't look like new but I'm hoping I can strip them, sand them up a bit, and varnish without having to replace. It looks like there are some posts where people have done this so I'm going to comment on those and try to get some tips. Any tips from you guys are also appreciated.

I'm glad I stumbled into the canoe camping conversation. I have two young boys, .5 and 3.5, my wife and I use to backpack but have been converting to canoe camping so we can carry all the gear. I have been weighing the options of taking the fiberglass or the wood, when it is ready, and knowing people are canoe camping in wood canoes gives me more of a reason to go that path. Part of getting into the wood canoes was so our family canoeing pictures would look really awesome!

Dan R.

 

[MGC]

Hi Dan,
I have had reasonable success saving old decals. If you can accept them as they are and recognize that a coat of varnish over the top won't do much to improve it, all you need to do is work around the decal when you refinish the decks. In some cases you may be able to clean the decal with rubbing alcohol or mineral spirits to bring it back a bit but ultimately, there is generally not a lot that you can do. That is why some restorers resort to a replacement decal.
You mention fiberglass canoes. I have paddled and carried a lot of those. I see no advantage to them over wood and canvas. The weight of a glass canoe is about the same as wooden canoe. They paddle poorly in contrast and have no give in waves. The aesthetic (as you note) is entirely lacking. The only advantage is that you can leave them in the backyard in the bushes when you are done with them.
We paddled a 20 foot White when the boys were too young to paddle. They fit side by side in the middle. We had a ton of room for my pack basket and our wet bags. As they got older they sat back-to-back and we still had enough room. The carries with that canoe were memory makers. 2 1/2 miles with 100 plus pound canoe is not an easy day, but very doable if you are into it. The kids help out with all of the loose things like paddles and poles.
As our boys got older, we started to use our Morris and whatever else we had around. A Rushton, Old Town, Chestnut... later an Atkinson Traveller for the boys. My wife would paddle with one of our boys and I would paddle with the other. Or, we would let them do their own thing. We let them use an Old Town Royalex quite often. They could strand that, hang it up on rocks, drop it, whatever. There were a few times when I had to rescue it as it was floating away out of sight. The boys might have been distracted catching crayfish or beating on each other and let it go. The Royalex was good for rapids as they were learning how to paddle in whitewater. It's a better hull than fiberglass in my opinion.

 

[Dan R.]

MGC,

Thanks for the info on the decal. That is likely the approach I will take.

I love the stories of the family trips! It gets me excited for my upcoming adventures.
I was originally looking for a 20 footer for the trips but the Morris caught my attention and I figure we'll get more use out of it around the local waters than we would lugging a 20 footer for an afternoon paddle. That said, I can see us needing something larger in the near future. I'm guessing we will need to start looking for a 20 footer next winter or two. Especially if we want to do longer wilderness trips.

A couple questions,
Is there a reason you went for the White over the Old Town or some of the other 20 footers?
Do you recall about what age the kids were when you outgrew the 20 footer?

 

[MGC]

The boys were good passengers until they were about 8 and 10 if I remember correctly. At that point they were able to become fairly reliable bow paddlers. My wife and I each took one as our bow partner. During those years we tried to moderate the trips to avoid really big lake crossings and hard water. There are plenty of routes where the worst thing you have to deal with are carries. Good steady downstream routes with reasonable lakes kept us busy for quite a few years. If there were stretches of water that needed some skill to run we would take turns so that no one ended up compromised. My father was more daring. He took me on my first big trip when I was 13. We started in Greenville and went North.
The Old Town vs. White decision was made for me. In a classic one-of-a-kind horse trade deal, my father had Guy Cyr build him a White. I later learned (from Rollin) that Guy used Jerry Stelmok's White form. I don't know what Jerry got out of it but Guy was able to use my father's canoe plug in return. Some will recall Gates-Cyr canoes.
My father had worked for the Maine Forest Service and also as a guide on Moosehead. He was always telling me that the White was the canoe of choice in that area. I recall seeing more than a few of them when we paddled those lakes.
Given a choice of the White or the Old Town, I would probably not go with a 20 footer. The 17 1/2 Atkinson Traveller that my son and I built in Rollins shop would have done the job nearly as well as the White but it is a much more maneuverable and lighter hull. I like to think of it as an evolutionary improvement on the Maine working canoe. Unlike the White, which I rarely use anymore, the Traveller is always ready to go on a trip. It is equally at home on big water and strong rivers. It slices through a haystack. It tracks with purpose on big open water. It can carry a moose. The White does pretty well but it does not have the finer entry that makes Rollins boats easier to paddle.

 

[Benson Gray]

Is there a reason you went for the White over the Old Town or some of the other 20 footers?

Either of these canoes can carry a significant load. The most commonly stated distinction is that the White hull is slightly rounder while the Old Town is more flat. This means that the White will usually be faster when paddled in deep water. The Old Town will be better in very shallow streams or when powered by an outboard motor. Your mileage may vary...

Benson

 

[Dan R.]

Thanks MGC and Benson,

I'm glad I have several years with a boat of four. I'll have to come up to one of the Assemblies so I can get a look at a variety of boats and find what will work for us. I hadn't thought the Atkinson Traveler would be big enough but I've read good things about them. I'll have to give them a look.

Thanks for all the conversation!

 

[MGC]

One thing I neglected to mention. Many of these 20 foot canoes are fitted with a motor bracket and run with a small gas motor. Quite a few of the big canoes you see on the Maine waterways are set up that way. I have both a bracket and a Neptune motor that I always intended to try.
The attached image is a Royalex Old Town hauling a complete outhouse down the Allagash River.

 

[Rollin Thurlow]

That seems a little awkward but I guess that is one way to make sure you have your own private outhouse at the campsite

 

[Dan Lindberg]

That image reminds me of then we 1st got out place up North, and I built the biffy at home in the back yard,
got more then a few strange looks from the neighbors. The walls were not attached and they all fit in a trailer for the ride North.

BTW. we are still using that biff all these years later. (though a septic system is now in the works)

Dan