20 Foot Huron Project - Getting the Hog Out

[Fitz]

It has been really quiet on the forum, so I figure it might be time to post another project.

This is a reported 20 foot Bastien Brothers Huron. It belongs to the family of a high school classmate of mine and the story goes that it was the last 20 footer they made. The family drove to PQ to pick it up in the late 1960's.

I took the canvas off today and this is one very LUMPY canoe. The planking is plain sawn and at least 6 inches wide. It looks to me like the mid-section of the hull was repaired and the copper tacks that were used were not long enough and the ribs have pulled away from the planking.

There is also a prominent bulge at the stem in the bow, and I'm not sure what to make of that.

I guess I will try some new ribs and planking to get the hull near fair again. All I can think of is to try using some battens to get the hog out. Any other ideas?

The canoe does have half ribs in the bottom as well.

 

[Canoez]

One thing I've seen to get hogging out of a canoe like that is to take 2x members - one inside the hull and one outside the hull bolted right through-and through while you do your repair work. What's going on at the base of the stem under that planking at the garboard? Man that's strange looking.

You're probably on the right tack with stiff battens down the length of the hull with some short sheet metal type screws to pull the ribs up to a fair hull shape and then repair planking and re-tack.

I've gotta dig in my notes, but Jerry Stelmok preferred vertical grain planking for certain parts of the hull and flat grain for others.

Some new planking is in order. How much planking needs replacement? Looks like quite a bit. Is it worth going to narrower planking or will it look funny?

 

[Dave Wermuth]

Hi Fitz.

Oh king of the Great Big canoes,
Will you be pouring boiling water on the canoe once it it braced in place and the lumps are flattened out? Might help to make the ribs change their minds.
I try to use the better quarter sawn planks in the bottom and the flat sawn near the gunnel.

 

[peter osberg]

I have been amazed at the consequences of poor supports during winter storage. The lumpiness of the bottom looks to me like the consequence of having point support and not enough of it. I have inflicted a similar effect (though not as marked) on one of my large freighters. I would caution against trying to fix it quickly as some time (+/- hot or cold water) and proper support/splinting may allow it to settle into a more respectable shape.
peter

 

[beaver]

I have been amazed at the consequences of poor supports during winter storage. The lumpiness of the bottom looks to me like the consequence of having point support and not enough of it. I have inflicted a similar effect (though not as marked) on one of my large freighters. I would caution against trying to fix it quickly as some time (+/- hot or cold water) and proper support/splinting may allow it to settle into a more respectable shape.
peter

Several years ago I saw these old bark sway-backs up at Old Ft. William. It appears that they had been put out to pasture never to return to the fleet again.

FG

 

[Louis Michaud]

Looks like a Louis A. Picard, not a Bastien. See the Dragonfly ID guide. Picards have round cutout decks, wider ribs than Bastiens and posts for seat attachement to the rail.
Best,

Louis Michaud
Rimouski, Quebec

 

[Douglas Ingram]

These were always lumpy canoes, but I've never seen any this lumpy. Definitely looks like poor support over time, like Peter says.

 

[Fitz]

Storage

I am not sure of the history of storage of the canoe, but I agree with you guys. It has been stored recently and for some time (maybe 10 or more years) shingled in the attic of a barn. I suspect the damage in the center may be partially the result of trying to lift the canoe through the gable door to the loft. Someone may have levered (or see-sawed) the canoe in the entrance breaking the canoe's back. That is where the short tacks and repairs have been made too, so the ribs are falling out there.

I was hoping you would chime in Louis. I too was thinking Picard after seeing Dan's site. I'm not sure what relationship Bastien Bros. and Picard may have had in the 1960's, but the owner said right away that they had a Bastien. So I'm left wondering. I will see if I can get more information from the owner.

I am also surprised by the lack of a thwart behind the bow seat, but that is also shown in the Picard picture on Dan's site.

I'm tempted to try canoez bolted 2x's, hot water, some new planking and ribs with decent tacks and see what happens. A big issue is just wrestling with this critter and moving it around. I can probably get away with narrower quartersawn planking on the bottom - the bottom is totally covered with ribs and half ribs, so you can't see it.

(This was another one of those "easy canvas jobs"). Oh well, it will no doubt be a learning experience.

Thanks for the help.

Fitz

 

[davelanthier]

I'm pretty sure it is a Faber canoe. They were built in Loretteville, Quebec which was just outside of the Huron Native reserve where the Huron canoes were built. See pictures Below. The Huron canoes differ in that they had thick heart shaped decks and inwale caps. If you decide it is a Faber I have extra decals available which were placed on both deck surfaces. Pictures are of a 16' Faber prospector I just restored. Faber is still in business making snow shoes.

 

[Denis M. Kallery]

Dave,
What do you want for a set of Faber decals? I've a fifteen footer that is due for restoration. Deep little canoe 13 inches. Though it still has remnants of it's decals it would be nice to replace them.
Denis

 

[davelanthier]

To Denis K.

Since you are a WCHA member just email me your address and I'll snail mail them to you at a price that will be very right.

 

[Denis M. Kallery]

Dave,
My current email is listed on the members list.
Thanks, Denis

 

[Fitz]

Inwale Caps

Hi Dave:

Thanks for your input on this one. This canoe does have the inwale caps. Also, there are no seat supports at the rails on this canoe, just typical spacers. The rib are not very finished, thwarts and decks basic otherwise I don't see much for distinguishing features.

The owners went and picked it up brand spanking new originally, so they should have more to tell me. I'll report back after talking with them.

Thanks,

Fitz

 

[davelanthier]

Fritz, it will be interesting if you can nail down the maker. One bonus out of this is that Denis K. has some Faber decals coming his way. On getting the hog out, this is what I do. Use a board or boards cut to size and stationed like thwarts under the inwales and over the hogged area. Place another board like a keelson over the hogged area. Measure the depth distance between the bottom and top boards. Cut upright boards to that measurement plus what it will take to force the hog out when the upright is forced between the bottom and top boards. Some wedges can be used at the uprights to adjust the tension further if needed. Now turn the canoe upside down and apply lots of steam to the hogged area. An electric kettle will work. After steaming leave the canoe sit for at least a couple of days with the boards in place. Worth a try before you go replacing ribs. Good luck

 

[Fitz]

Ironing

I donno Dave. This could be dangerous. If my wife catches me trying to "press" the creases out of a canoe, she just might have me committed!!

Sounds like it is worth a shot. Thanks for the tip.

Fitz.

 

[Canoez]

With all that steam for a 20 footer, it sounds like you need a canoe sauna...

 

[dboles]

Eveyone has a different approach.I asked a canoe restorer how he removed hog.Told me he left the canoe over winter rightside up in sling horses outside his shop. Worked for him.With that idea in mind and also having the canvas removed. I slung the canoe a scant inch or so off the ground between 2 trees, the ends supported with pool noddles.Into the canoe I poured a few gallons of boiled water, placed a couple lidded pails of water where they took out the hog.Left all out for a couple weeks checking every so often. Let dry. Took care of the hog on two boats so far.
On another note how goes the battle Fitz.Tag that buck this year
Dan'l

 

[Fitz]

Did I get the Hog??

One of my big concerns with the Huron project is ever getting it fair again. This hull had real issues. I mounted a strong back on it and soaked the hull in hot water and eased it back into shape. I will now adjust any ribs if necessary and button up the planking. At some point, this hull got levered and it creased the hull. A canoe this size would benefit greatly with a keel and a keelson to give it some backbone. Although, I personally hate keels while paddling. I would tend to leave it keelson and keel free unless levering and creasing the hull becomes a chronic issue.

So, I am hoping the fix will take and when I am done planking it, it will be close to fair. Now I have to find really wide cedar. I have some 6 inch cedar, but some of the planking approaches 9 inches. I don't think they make cedar trees this wide anymore.

So, with some luck, canvasing and filling is in sight.

 

[Andre Cloutier]

Wow! lots o work. I respectfully submit you cut a hole in it and drop in an engine; at the least cut one of the points off of it and put a transom on it for an outboard. what a beast - but oh how it would burn!!!

 

[Fitz]

Tinder

You see Andre, I am beginning to think you are too quick with the match. I too was thinking, you know it is the 4th of July weekend, some fireworks are in order and MATCH might be a very good option this morning, but now I have a ray of hope. If it doesn't relax when I am done, it will be a fine canoe - especially since I won't have to carry it.