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Shot in the dark - Chestnut Ogilvy plans?

Discussion in 'Wood and Canvas' started by Blue Charm, Feb 15, 2016.

  1. Blue Charm

    Blue Charm New Member

    Total shot in the dark here, but does anyone know if there are plans available for any of the Chestnut Ogilvy models?

    I currently have plans for a 24-foot v-stern model lofted from a friend's boat many years ago, but I don't have the space for that project yet. I was hoping to build a 18 or 20 foot double-ender in the interim. I've looked everywhere including the resources suggested on here but there's no sign of such plans anywhere. Barring that, does anyone have any thoughts on a boat with available plans that might be similar (big, stable, good for poling/fishing.. no need to portage)? I know I could probably find one to restore, but I'm just finishing a restoration of another canoe now and was really hoping to build.
     
  2. Fitz

    Fitz Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    I have seen some sort of plans for a 16 foot Ogilvy. Member Lou Mutschler was going to build a form from them before he passed away. I can't recall off the top of my head where he obtained them. I will dwell on it some. Hopefully someone else knows.
     
  3. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

  4. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    The 18.5 White Guide might be as close to an Ogilvy that you can get, ie, wide and flat, then adjust the end shape to fit your liking.

    Dan
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Blue Charm

    Blue Charm New Member

    Thanks for the replies all! I looked at the White's Guide, beautiful... I wonder if it would be sacrilege to build one with 3"ribs 1/2" apart like the Ogilvy.. I'm not concerned about weight, the thing would be hauled on a trailer and used on rivers, mostly going downstream...
     
  6. shelldrake

    shelldrake LOVES Wooden Canoes

    If you're looking for a flat, Ogilvy-style bottom, the 18.5' E.M. White may not be the best choice. The 20' White Guide perhaps, or one of the Old Town Guides (16, 18 and 20').

    Matt
     
  7. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    If you already have plans for a 24 ft'er, why are you looking for others?
    They are symmetrical so you have the double ender piece.
    And it's easy enough to shorten (by closing up the stations) or shrink (all dimensions by x%) the 24 down to 18 or 20 ft.

    Dan
     
  8. OP
    OP
    Blue Charm

    Blue Charm New Member

    Matt - the Old Town Guide looks like it might be even better.. might be the same problem re:finding plans..

    Dan - the short answer is my current shed isn't long enough for the 24 ft, but I have the itch now and want to try my hand at building after my current restoration project. The 24 footer will be used with a motor for salmon fishing; I'll use the 18 for trips down smaller water. I wonder if shortening up the plans I have now is above my skill level a bit. When you say closing up the stations do mean shortening the length between them, or removing some? Looking at the specs for the ogilvy I see the beam is 36" in the 18 ft and 40 " in the 24 ft, so I guess I would have to accommodate for that somehow?
     
  9. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    I did a very quick search/look, and found somebody (Valley woodworking) selling a plan called Outback 20, shallow arch, 20 ft long, 42" beam.
    There are probably others.

    So it depends on how flat bottom you want it. If you are hard over on it, it looks like you either modify what you have or modify a different design.

    As for the 24, yes, you could either shorten the distance between stations, or remove 1 or 2 in the middle, or both.
    Have you lofted the lines you already have? or is that yet to be done?
    If they are still offsets, it's easy to scale them down by x% to reduce the width.

    Dan
     
  10. Larry Meyer

    Larry Meyer Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    I’ve got an 18 foot Ogilvy and I’ve often wondered whether its exceptionally flat bottom and double ribbing would make it a very hard canoe to reproduce off a mold. Most ribs when steamed spring back some as they dry out. Most Ogilvy ribs just have two very hard pronounced bends in them at the chine. So you’ve got to get a lot of ribs to hold those sharp bends just right, or you’ll get hull shape distortion.

    Before plunging into building on an Ogilvy mold I’d want to talk to someone who has built on one. Even someone who has replaced ribs on one.
     
  11. Louis Michaud

    Louis Michaud LOVES Wooden Canoes

    When the Chestnut was in Flower, a book by Roger MacGregor has the lines drawing of an Ogilvy. A few years ago I asked him for information on the lines of the Cruiser. He had taken the measurements and he sent a copy of the offsets for my personal use. I'm pretty sure he has offsets for the Ogilvy also. I don't think his company, Ivy Lea, is still active and I don't have any contact information.

    Good luck.
     
  12. greyghost

    greyghost Curious about Wooden Canoes

    I've restored 4 Ogilvys ; a 22',20', and 2x18'.
    The ribs are tapered both width and thickness , tapering them in thickness from the bend to tip allows the rib to stay flat on the bottom of the canoe . The taper from bottom to top is 1/8", it's done by putting a shim in the right spot under the rib as it goes through the planer.
    I've seen round bottomed Ogilvys , the taper in these canoes was 1/16" (or non existent) which isn't enough to keep the bottom flat .
     
  13. Larry Meyer

    Larry Meyer Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    How did you figure that out?
     
  14. greyghost

    greyghost Curious about Wooden Canoes

    When I worked on the 1st Ogilvy I got a lot of advise from a local builder , who has the 16'-22' Ogilvy moulds . He showed me the tapers in the Ogilvy ribs , why they were there , and how to get them.

    If you look at the Ogilvy rib from top to bottom you can see the taper in thickness , this is how the Sharp , Miller and Chestnut Ogilvy fishing (flat bottom) canoes are/were built. It's easy enough to measure the rib top and bottom thicknesses to determine the taper on the rib.
     
  15. Larry Meyer

    Larry Meyer Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    Not bragging, but then it seems I was right. Any reason (structural I suppose I mean) the ribs are so close together? Also I think I read some place that the extra wide center thwart was needed, also to offset the tendency of the Ogilvy canoe to want to spread out. It has great initial stability; standing up in it is very easy.
     
  16. greyghost

    greyghost Curious about Wooden Canoes

    These canoes were made for salmon fishing (working canoes) , the wide closely spaced ribs are for strength and to provide good footing .
    The Ogilvy is a poling canoe , and one of the best , it's meant to be stood up in both poling and fishing .
    The purpose of the wide thwart is a seat used when at anchor , it lightens the stern of the canoe so the canoe won't fishtail in the rivers current .
    The larger V stern Ogilvys don't have the wide thwart as they are run with outboard motor and anchored from the bow and not the stern (like the double enders).

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    http://nsflyguy.ca/smf/index.php?topic=4864.0
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  17. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Do you know if they (the ribs) were always tapered? Just curious, I have an 18 ft'er in que that I believe is a very early version (early 30's?).

    Dan
     
  18. greyghost

    greyghost Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Dan,
    All the round bottomed Ogilvys with little (if any) rib taper that I've seen were all built in the late 60's early 70's when speed of build was more important to the company than attention to detail was. The rib taper (thickness) is part of the Ogilvy's design and required in order to have a flat bottom.
    An Ogilvy built in the 30's would be a well made canoe (with proper rib taper) .
     
  19. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Thanks,
    I'd look but it is buried deep.
    Dan
     
  20. Louis Michaud

    Louis Michaud LOVES Wooden Canoes

    What Larry said: ...center thwart was needed, also to offset the tendency of the Ogilvy canoe to want to spread out... I have an Ogilvy Gadabout 16 footer probably built in the early 50s. The Gadabouts were built on the 24' Ogilvy forms. It has the rib taper: top of the rib is just a hair over 1/4". But it was built with no thwarts at the gunwale level. It has opened up like a tulip in the mid-sections. The hull has flare where it should be plumb sided or have a slight tumblehome. The seat riser is only about 8" of the bottom of a 14" deep hull and is not enough to hold-in the sides. The rebuilding will include a few thwarts at the gunwales just back of the seats.

    About the Gadabouts. They seem to have been popular with outfitters along the Miramichi river (salmon river) in New-Brunswick Canada. Not for fishing but for bringing supplies and cargo to fishing and hunting lodges. I regularly see one for sale in that area and have come across a few rotting hulls behind hunting cabins.

    Louis Michaud
     

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