18ft OTCA Restoration

[Melthias15]

Hey everyone, at long last I have ripped into the Old Town and I have a couple of updates along with some questions. After getting the canvas off, I saw that the hull was a patchwork of bondo repairs


All the the wood, except the planking at the very tips and 2 thwarts, is original. And since this canoe was used for a camp that means that there are at least 13 ribs to be replaced. A fair amount of planking could due with a replacment, but I understand that most of it will be alright except in sections where there is a hole and or a considerable about of rot, such as this:



As usual, stripping the interior was the first step. This being my first restoration, and having limited time on my hands, I decided to only do a single stripping.



Even with only going over once, the difference was pretty astounding. I also stripped the gunnels and decks, but it seems that they had a layer of red paint under the blue, and it was not being very cooperative. I decided that my priorities were not in getting a perfect finish, but rather in doing structural repairs, and have left the mottled blue/red coat alone for now. After stripping, i decided to get the most terrifying part over with and to tackle the end repairs. The stem in the stern (interesting turn of phrase) was still there, but bairly. The top 6in of the bow stem basically fell apart in my hands. The tip of one deck was rotten but attached, but the other tip was gone, and all four inwale tips were shot.



In other words, I needed to bring up three sections of one side to meet the existing stem, and all 4 sections to meet at an imaginary point in space (maybe not that big of a deal for an experienced builder, but it was pretty terrifying to me).

 

[Melthias15]

Luckily, I made it through the guantlet and here are the finished ends:



I was unable to work on the caone for a couple of months, but have just started up again. This time it is rib bending time! I have bent all the ribs that I plan on replacing and have installed 50% already.



After I install these, it will be onto a few planking repairs. So here is a question for the forum: What is the best way to get planking out of a 1"X4"X5' board? i have read about using a table saw and getting 3 planks, but running a saw up 4" seems a bit sketchy, and it way be hard to get 3 planks of consistant thickness. My thought was to maybe cut the board in half, to make two 1"X2"X5' boards, and just put two thinner planks in place of one. Also, this would make plaining easier, as all I have is a bunch of hand planes. What are your thoughts on this?

The other questions I have are inorder to get a bit ahead of the game and have a plan before decisions need to be made.

1) I have raw canvas, and should I wash it or get it wet before the stretching process?
2) I have not stained, and do not have the materials/expertise to stain the ribs can someone link a picture of a finished conoe where the ribs were not stained?
3) I have heard various things about shellacing the interior and am intrigued. Should I put more coats on the new ribs to "stain" them? Should I use amber shellac at 3lb cut?
4) Man o War varnish is what I can get locally, is that a good varnish, or will it peel after a short amount of time?
5) For the filler, I was thinking of using whichever enamel I get to be the finish paint to cut down on waste and not worry about a primer color. I will also shellac the bottom. Can I get some pictures of people who have shellaced the bottoms of their canoes to help with some ideas of which paint colors will work well?

Thanks in advance, and any advice that people have would be very appreciated.

 

[Fitz]

You probably do not need to wet or wash your canvas.

Staining is not difficult. You do not say where you are located, but a little Minwax Early American, and Bob's your uncle.

I like shellac as a sealer on a thoroughly stripped hull. You might need to be sure you have stripped to bare wood. Stain any new wood before the shellac sealer. Use dewaxed shellac. Let dry thoroughly. Your mileage may vary.

Filler: you need a true canoe canvas filler. There are good recipes on this site and several vendors on the site sell it.

Shellac bottoms are nice. Use thin coats of varnish.

 

[Melthias15]

I will try the Early American and see how it looks. How thorough is thorough? I can tell you that I got most of the old varish off, and that there are just a few spots in between the ribs that would need a little more love. As for the filler, I know about recipes, and simply meant that I would like to incorporate that enamel as the paint that is in the filler

 

[Dan Lindberg]

If you don't have a bandsaw, position the blade perfectly square (vertical) and cut 1/2 the thickness, flip the wood end for end and cut the remaining thickness. Do NOT use narrower planking, as it will be difficult if not impossible to make it bend to the shape of the hull and be fair. Ideally you would rough cut the planking on either a bandsaw or table saw and final size it in a planer. Ribs you can avoid planing but planking is much harder.
>What is the best way to get planking out of a 1"X4"X5' board? i have read about using a table saw and getting 3 planks, but running a saw up 4" seems a bit sketchy, and it way be hard to get 3 planks of consistant thickness. My thought was to maybe cut the board in half, to make two 1"X2"X5' boards, and just put two thinner planks in place of one.

I would not use hand planes to size either the ribs or planking. Ribs can just be run through the table saw and final sanded, no problem. And I suspect with care and some setup, you could do the same with the planking. ie, zero clearance insert, feather boards etc.
>Also, this would make plaining easier, as all I have is a bunch of hand planes. What are your thoughts on this?


Don't know, never tried it. To date I get my canvas from either Jerry or Rollin, which ever sells supplies.
>1) I have raw canvas, and should I wash it or get it wet before the stretching process?

I don't have pics but I was unhappy with my 1st where I tried to match the color, now I just put on the new wood and varnish it, and let it color "naturally".
>2) I have not stained, and do not have the materials/expertise to stain the ribs can someone link a picture of a finished conoe where the ribs were not stained?

Never heard of shellacing the inside, but it should work, though I'm not sure why you wouldn't just use thinned varnish.
>3) I have heard various things about shellacing the interior and am intrigued. Should I put more coats on the new ribs to "stain" them? Should I use amber shellac at 3lb cut?

I don't like M o W varnish. It goes on thin and "sticky", doesn't mean it won't work, but I don't use it. My preference is Interlux, regular varnish, not poly. Go's on nice and smells great. Others use fancier varnish, which may protect better, but I like Interlux.
>4) Man o War varnish is what I can get locally, is that a good varnish, or will it peel after a short amount of time?

X2, use a traditional filler. I was unhappy the time I mixed my own, I would recommend a 1st timer to get filler from one of the Pros.
>5) For the filler,

Whether to primer or not is a "Ford or Chevy" argument. I haven't yet.
Don't use "whichever" enamel - use a good marine enamel, again, I like Interlux, though it's getting hard to find, they stopped making the basic plan enamel for fancier, higher priced stuff. Another option is Kirbys. You will need about 1 1/2 qts for the outside.
>I was thinking of using whichever enamel I get to be the finish paint to cut down on waste and not worry about a primer color. I will also shellac the bottom.

Can't help with the pics, but I do plan to shellac a bottom on a future canoe. If you shellac it, you don't paint it.
>Can I get some pictures of people who have shellaced the bottoms of their canoes to help with some ideas of which paint colors will work well?

Good luck and keep the pics coming,

Dan

 

[Mark Z.]

I have shellac-bottomed several canoes but if you want a variety of pictures to look at, check out the websites of Northwoods Canoe (Rollin Thurlow) and Island Falls Canoe (Jerry Stelmok), the early adapters of that Maine tradition. They have plenty of pictures of the different models they build, most of which are shellac bottomed. If you decide to shellac-bottom your canoe, get good instructions for the procedure, ie., do it on the unpainted bottom filler, etc.
Mark Z.

 

[Melthias15]

Thanks for the tips, at this point I have already purchased the silica for the filler and am feeling optimistic. If it starts to go in a couple of years, perhaps I can use the excuse to replace some of the planking that is a bit beat up. I could get some from Rollin, but am hesitant to order again from him unless I have a bigger order. The other thing I am wondering about with filler, is how the color of it will effect the color of the bottem when I shellac it. As for tips in mixing, feel free to share. I am planning on using the OT unleaded recipe here on the site. Should I heat the oil beforehand? Is there a magic consistancy I am looking for? does it need to be mixed and dried in an area that is above freezing? How will temp effect drying time? For that matter, are their any other parts of the restoration process that need to be done above freezing? Right now the canoe is in an unheated shed (in PA) and I can move it to a heated environment if need be.

Thanks again in advance

 

[mccloud]

Others have more experience with filler than I, so better replies should come soon. But last winter I mixed filler, applied, and hung the canoe from the floor joists in the basement. The space stays at 50 deg. or so. When the weather got warmer this spring the canoe was moved outside and I started to sand, and found that it had skinned over, but was gummy underneath. Weeks baking above the asphalt in the driveway got it solid, but slowed this project by months. Others have suggested hanging light bulbs underneath an overturned canoe to keep it a bit warm on the inside while filler sets up. So temperature seems to matter. As for consistency of filler, a bit on the thick side is good, so as you add the ingredients to make filler, hold the mineral spirit until last, then only add sufficient to adjust viscosity. Tom McCloud

 

[Dave Osborn]

Never been a shellac guy but, I thought the shellac went over the paint.....am I wrong?

 

[Greg Nolan]

Shellac goes over the filler, not over paint -- see discussion at:

http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?9074-Shellac-for-canoe-bottoms

 

[Fitz]

Shellac

In my post above, I meant to say use thin coats of fresh shellac on the bottom (not varnish). It might even be best to mix your own shellac using high quality denatured alcohol. Stuff on the shelf in the box stores can get very old. I had one canoe where the shellac on the bottom cracked/crazed. The cause may have been old store bought shellac premixed in cans or heavy coats or some combination of the two. It was easily fixed by sanding and adding new shellac.

I like shellac on the interior. It imparts a nice color to the hull and I use less varnish. I think it helps to hide new wood too. I have had a few blisters show up in the varnish later. I have not gotten to the bottom of those blisters yet, but it may be a result of cleaning the hull prior to varnish, or some sort of contamination issue. Maybe not the shellac.

The attached picture shows a canoe I did this fall. There are 6 or 8 new ribs in the canoe and some new planking. They are very difficult to pick out after all the Minwax, shellac and varnishing is done. It passes the two foot rule of thumb.

Fitz.

 

[pathologist]

You are obviously well into this canoe restoration project with loads of good and valuable advice, but if I were you, for my library, I would buy the "bible" of canoe building and restoration, "THE WOOD AND CANVAS CANOE," BY JERRY STELMOK AND ROLLIN THURLOW, a complete guide to its history, construction, restoration, and maintenance, 1987. It is available on several sites over the internet or from the store at the Woodenboat School, Brooklin, Maine. It is a comprehensive treatise.
Pathologist

 

[Melthias15]

Already purchased!

 

[Greg Nolan]

the "bible" of canoe building and restoration, "THE WOOD AND CANVAS CANOE," BY JERRY STELMOK AND ROLLIN THURLOW, a complete guide to its history, construction, restoration, and maintenance, 1987. It is available on several sites over the internet or from the store at the Woodenboat School, Brooklin, Maine. /QUOTE]

It is also available from our own WCHA online store: http://store.wcha.org/The-Wood-and-Canvas-Canoe.html

 

[Melthias15]

I have finished putting in the ribs, but three of them partially broke when clinching them in. Instead of tearing them out again I am attempting some back patches. The patches are oak, and they went on fine. I will see how they turn out once the epoxy cures. Cutting planking halfway through and fillping it over worked pretty well, and I just used a belt sander to get it to the right thickness. I hope that the patches work and tomorrow I can start planking over them.

I have started to look at my options for heated storage locations. OK, so the places that I can store the canoe are in a greenhouse and the loft of an old barn. The greenhouse has no heating and maybe gets up to 60F or so on a really sunny day. The barn has heating on the first floor and it is kept at 40F or so (I think). I will probably put the boat in the greenhouse when it is time to canvas it. I hope that this will be warm enough and that I don't run into the same problem as mccloud. Do any other people have tips or tricks or horror stories to share regarding filler and cold temps?

 

[Fitz]

I do everything in my driveway. I don't do much below freezing because it gets uncomfortable. I canvas, fill, varnish, and even paint (warmer).

Don't sweat it.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

An understatement if I've ever heard one.

I don't do much below freezing because it gets uncomfortable.

 

[Melthias15]

Time for an update.

The patches of oak worked well, and although the ribs are not quite back to the original shape, it is good enough for me. All of the ribs were tacked in place, and the remaining planking put on. In many places I had to use boiling water to get the wood to conform to the boat without cracking. Some of the transitions were a bit rough, with little gaps between pieces that were filled with scraps of cedar and a couple of awkward moments where the new planking was a bit thinner than the old. The second problem was more or less left alone, since it seemed a bad idea to sand down already old wood for a mostly cosmetic issue.

It was around this point that I noticed that the tips of the canoe had a slightly differnt profile. One (the old) tip was "pointy" and the new one was almost a smooth transition from deck to stem (see previous pictures). I was disheartened, as i could notice this difference even from a distance (now that I knew about it). In the end, I sanded the pointy tip a bit to reduce the effect just a bit. I soon realized that under all that bondo that was helping to hold the stem together, was a spliced stem tip. This meant that the "original" profile that I had been so scared to tarnish, was not that at all! Unfourtunatly, in the process of sanding the connection between the stem and deck fell away, leaving a 1/2in gap. I have used wood glue and a scrap piece of ash to at least restore contact between the two, but cannot see how to establish a firm connection without a more invasive measure. I am assuming that connecting the stem bands will provide a significant amount of support between the two parts, as long as there is something to fill the space.

And, besides that, I canvased it today. Did it the upside down way. I could not seem to get the canvas to be pulled totally snug against the planking right above where the canoe will part the water, but that was the case in the old canvas, and seems to have to do with the shape of the canoe. It is tight in any case.

The last thing I did today was to mix the filler. I used OT unleaded from WCHA, and mixed all the ingredients in a 5gal bucket. The paint was an oil rust paint (light grey) from the 80s, but was never opened. I made sure to stir it well before adding it to the rest of the mixture. I have added some turpentine but not the full amount in the recipe, to adjust the thickness. Unfoutunatly, I have no idea what I am going for. should it feel like paint? varnish?

I had another question, this time about stem bands. I got the 6ft ones frm Northwoods Canoe, but if I start them where the stem starts, then they well extend the full length of the deck. Should I shorten them, or should I start them a rib earlier than the stem?

 

[Melthias15]

Just finished applying the filler with two helpers. I was brushing and they were rubbing with canvas mitts. In the process the mitts had filler leaking through them onto the hands. I will take this as a good sign that the filler penetrates well, and hope that I did not make it too thin. It was impossible to really make the seams on the end to disappear, but at least they were very saturated and gone over many times. It was not dry enough to really rub it with my hands, but that may have been because we were going faster than one person could, and it was really damp outside. I will check it later today to see how it loos once it has a chance to dry a bit. As for quantity, we used about 3/4 of the unleaded recipe.

 

[Melthias15]

I also could not really get the weave of the canvas to disappear.