Square Stern ID Please

[skyking]

First, great site for researching canoe info - keep up the great work!

I have a 15'6" Square Stern that was restored in 1997 in Maine and the restorer claims it was built around 1947. It has diamond head bolts attaching the thwarts. However, there are no Old Town serial numbers on the forward stem (which could have been replaced during restoration). It has a slightly higher rise at the bow than the Old Town Square Sterns I have seen in pictures. If the true identity of this jumps out at anyone, please let me know. Many thanks.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

beautiful boat

Check the transom edge and bracket for numbers.

 

[skyking]

Hi Kathryn,

Thanks for the idea but I've closely looked everywhere for a plate, decal, label, or stamped numbers and can find nothing.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

You may already have looked at this, but here's the square stern from the 1947 Old Town catalog (courtesy The Complete Old Town Canoe Campany Catalog Collection, 1901- 1993, available on CD from http://www.wcha.org/catalog/ and http://www.dragonflycanoe.com/cdrom.htm on the web.)

You might try using the "search" function at the top of the page to see if anyone has posted pictures of their OT square stern... but eventually someone who knows more than I will jump in!

Kathy

 

[skyking]

Wow, thanks for taking the time to look that up for me! My numbers are very close to those listed on the catalog page. Mine is 15'5" OAL, 39-1/2" amidships, 14-1/2" deep amidships. Only difference is my transom is 25-1/2" not 28". And I still see a bit more curvature at the bow than the catalog picture shows. Deck piece is 16". Overall you would think it was a Old Town of this vintage and model but the lack of serial number is a bit disappointing to really nail it down. I'm sure others with far more knowledge will have the final say on this. I'm guessing that because of the additional curvature and transom width that if it truly is an Old Town, the year is off. Just a guess...

 

[Dave Osborn]

Greg,
Thanks for your e-mail. Looked at the photos posted here and the additional photos that you have on E-Bay. It does indeed remind me of the OT Sq. End Paddling Canoe that I restored a few years back. The keelson and breasthooks are what remind me of it. Mine had a center seat. It, along with the stern seat, were planks. The bow seat was cane. Maybe cane was still unavailable in 1947??? Anyway I sure miss that canoe now. I would be using it for row-trolling for muskys an walleyes.

Old Town catalogs describe this model as being supplied with half ribs. Yours does not have them. That doesn't rule Old town out, though. They were the Burger King of canoe builders...."Have it your way....." LOL

It could be a Carleton, but most likely not as late as 1947.
I'll measure up my Carleton Square End (1921, I think) to see if the transom was 25". I know it has a floor rack, but not sure about half ribs...(it's also buried, so bear with me.)
Good luck selling it!
Dave

 

[skyking]

Thanks for the input. When I bought it, I had seen it up close and personal. It was restored by my best friend's cousin. I didn't need to know who built it or when it was built as I saw a top end very nicely restored canoe that I was very impressed with. Now that I have to sell it (business fell of a cliff last October) I wanted to try to identify it's heritage as best I could for any potential buyers, especially if they are buying sight unseen long distance. I certainly don't want to misrepresent this fine canoe to anyone.

I think it has several features that would lead one to conclude that it is indeed an Old Town. The trick is matching the model and year of build without the serial number. I may only get as close as 'Paddle Canoe made in the 40s' and that will have to suffice. It will stand (or float) on it's own merits.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

You are wise to want to gather as much information as possible on your canoe before you sell it... the better you are able to describe what it is, the more interest you will generate... with a greater likelihood that it will end up in the hands of someone who truly appreciates it. I feel an old canoe deserves to have as much of its history travel with it as is possible.

Sorry you have to part with your prize. I know how that feels-- we had to part with a favorite during a tough patch last winter. Best of luck finding your canoe a deserving home.

Kathy

 

[skyking]

More Detail

Hi Folks,

Here is more detail at the bow. Note copper stem cap and painter's ring. Also Diamond Heads at forward thwarts. My guess is the slatted seats were done at restoration to replace the forward cane seat and aft plank seat. I'm now assuming this is some form of Old Town unless otherwise persuaded.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

I would agree that it's likely a OT, but that ft deck just doesn't look right, it's probably been replaced and the rebuilder it's match the original exactly.

Dan

 

[smallboatshop]

It is puzzling... The deck and the seats and the floor rack don't look Old Town; and there is no # on the stem- so maybe all these were replaced. The way the gunwale tips meet the outside stem is not the usual Old Town. The carry handle looks like it is too far back from the deck to be Old Town and the ribs appear pretty close together. The bow seat in the Old Town Square End Paddling Canoe is hung from the inwales not supported on risers. So with the transom measurement being different than the catalog and the curvature of the bow being in question, maybe it's something else...

 

[skyking]

Well I'm not married to the hope that it is OT. It's just that OT is the closest match so far. Gee, maybe it's a one-off custom job from OT that's worth ten grand!

 

[Rollin Thurlow]

I am not sure of the manufacture of the boat but it does not look like an Old Town to me. The shape of the deck, transome knees, the floor rack and the construction of the seats are not like Old Town would of had. The rib spacing does not look like the typical O.T. Also the O.T. transoms were notched to recive the ends of the rails so the end grain of the rail was not exposed at the end of the boat. on this boat you can see that the rails completly pass by the end of the transom.

The hull is well built and and appears to be fiberglassed. I would hazzard a guess that is is one of models built by one of the builders in Grand Lake Stream, maybe by Sprague. Most of the older builders were very good, they all used Old Town bolts and hardware for their boats and most of their boats were fiberglassed.

 

[skyking]

That's good info, but I thought Joe would build you a boat in any length you wanted as long as it was 20 feet. Mine is only 15.

 

[skyking]

eBay Auction was a bust. 35 'watchers', one bidder minimum opening bid. I thought there might be a market for this regardless of the time of the year. Guess not. Of course, the economy has no effect on this...