Shrinking canoe project

[Dave Wermuth]

It seemed like a good idea at the time. Shrink an 18' Penn Yan Guide that is really really bad down to 14' 8". The idea is to make a solo canoe for day paddling. It was really rotted to begin with and I have three 18' ers already so it seemed like a good idea. It was a bad idea. Now, I'm committed, or should be, and I have to see it through. I'm not ready to give up yet. Here's a photo. inwales are now cherry, outwales mahog, decks walnut, new stems will be elm. I can always call in Andre' to make it go away, but for now, i'll keep trying.

 

[Dave Osborn]

Dave,
You are a magician! Abbra Cadabbra!
Looks great!
Davey O.

 

[Ed Moses]

Dave,
Neat! It appears from the photo to have a fine entry, should make for a speedy solo canoe. Hope she doesn't turn out to be rather tender though. Stay with it as this would make for an interesting write up for "Wooden Canoe". A different approach to resurrecting another one!

Ed

 

[Dave Wermuth]

It is going to be tender and that's a good observation Ed. However, I have a DY Special from Sawyer, designed by David Yost and this canoe seems similar. Perhaps a little flatter. I won't know for sure until launch day but I think it'll have good speed, slow to turn and stable enough to fish from.

I would not have tried this except for two things. 1) It was so rotten that there was no other option other but to torch it. 2) Gil did one.
I would not recommend this unless you really have a dead 18'er and a magic wand. "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of a hat."

 

[Paul Waqué]

Good luck with it. It looks like it could be fun boat to mess about with when you do not mind going for a swim.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Dave,

Please tell us what the problems/challenges were and how you resoved them.
We have (briefly) considered the same in place of finding an original short canoe.

Dan

 

[Ed Moses]

Dave ,
I also would be interested in what you encountered attacking this project and how you resolved the issues. I have a really beat up 17' OT OTCA that was gifted to me. I had planned to make it a low end Otca and now I'm considering not only doing that but reducing it in length to 15 feet. This project will be way out there in the time sequence as there are too many canoe projects ahead of it but I just have to gather all the info to have on hand in the file when its' time comes. Where an Otca is so wide and stable, hacking two feet out of it, I'm thinking, should not alter its' stability too much - - but then again???

Ed

 

[Dave Wermuth]

Two major considerations:
1. get it straight.
2. get it smooth.

Straight involved alot of temporary stringers and a string. Side to side and up/down. the hull ended up being a little like an upside down V from one end to the other. It wasn't so much a hogged condition as a put it together wrong condition. Had to correct that. And the ribs don't want to be fair where they were once more than a dozen ribs away and are now next to each other. they just don't like to cozy up to each other.So you have to either take them out or loosen them and try to give small adjustments to get as fair as you can but will end up being lumpy somewhat. But it won't be the first lumpy canoe. I cut out planking and installed new to weave it all together. I did not think I could undo planking, let it hang long, move the ends together and refasten the long ends to the other side. I don't think that works, but you can ask Gil if he did it that way. I have a couple more planks to install, and the stems have to be installed as the old ones rotted mostly all away. Once i get it together, then I'll start at square one and can strip it of the old varnish and do the rest.

My temp stringers are about 1/2" or 3/4" x 7/8" scrap cedar about 6' long that I screw onto the side of the canoe right through a rib. A small hole once the stringer is removed is going to be a minor blemish.

Important to look at if considering this:
-you're going to butcher a piece of history, so don't start with a good canoe.
-you're goin to be removing the mid section and midsections tend to have the flat part and thus the stability. It might end up tippy.

Removing 2' for a 17' otca sounds reaonable but I wouldn't take out more than that. I like low shear lines.

 

[Gil Cramer]

Dave, your canoe looks good. What is the beam at the rails? Will you install a seat ? What is the center depth? As you mentioned, fairing the hull at the center with the old ribs is difficult. Pulling the tacks from the gunnel to the turn of the bilge helps some.

 

[Dave Wermuth]

Hi Gil

I gues I should measure the width. My guess is 32" . The DY Special is 30". It is 12" deep planking to top. pulling tacks and nails did help but I'm not going to get it perfect. I will put in a seat and I think I'll put a keel on it too.

 

[Ed Moses]

Dave,

Thanx for taking the time to detail your project issues and for your recommendations. I can easily visualize the use of a string from bow tip to stern tip to get a straight hull center line and believe I properly visualize your use of a string "side to side and up and down". Maybe you could elaborate upon that a tad.

Prior to my doing any cutting of a center section out of the OTCA, I'll do some measurements and lay out masking tape of what the center hull width will be after removing 2 feet & splicing together. If it appears not to have enough beam with 2 feet removed, I 'll likely make adjustments as to how much the length can be reduced in order to not risk having it turn out to be too tender. This OTCA is no prize, maybe not as bad as your patient was before surgery (not much rot) but there is a lot of structural breakage. It surely is not going to be a historical loss of a fine OT model, cobbling it up in this experiment since otherwise it might be sent to its final reward as fire starter!!

Ed

 

[Dave Wermuth]

I used the string on the inside bottom as well as the outside of the overturned canoe. With it upside down you can see for hog or rocker by using the string. I did not put the string at the tip of the stems. Stems can be crooked. And, on this canoe there were no stems except the bottom of the canoe. theyu had rotted away.

 

[Dave Wermuth]

I was out in the barn today and remembered to measure the beam. 32" at the widest point. The tumblehome is considerable so the rails are more like 30" but I didn't measure the rails, just the OA.

 

[Dave Wermuth]

bumping this back in

I wanted to bump this thread back after talking with Dave O. about it, and post a couple photos of the canoe which was nearly done at the time of the photos. It is all done now but for the stem bands.

Impressions of the test drive were very good. It is stable enough. It tracks and turns. It isn't as lumpy as I initially feared it would be. It turned out suprisingly well. I used a satin finish paint for less glare and more stealthy fly fishing.

 

[woodcanoenut]

Nice job Dave. I like the saddle seat. Have fun fly fishing.

 

[Gil Cramer]

Great job Dave. It appears to be a very nice solo canoe. As I age, I have certainly come to appreciate the value of a SMALL CANOE. Gil

 

[Treewater]

Great job. Likewise the others, I have considered shortening a canoe. Why not? I've already got a Morris turned square back. Great posting. Maybe put it in construction "how to."