Rib and Gunnel separation on 16' Old Town

[Slackwater]

I recently shipped a wood canvas Old Town canoe from the midwest that has been in my mothers garage for the last 25 years. It was the canoe my father and I used and I am hoping to do a bit of work on it and start having some adventures with my nine year old son this season.

I remember when we last used it there was some separation starting between the gunnels and the ribs especially near the front seat and again near the front deck.

The gunnel on one side has dipped down a bit too but I think I could raise it with some careful clamping once I decide on the best method to reattach the gunnels to the ribs.

I would like to try to fix this but I am not sure of the best way.

Could you guys take a look and give me some advice, I would really appreciate it.

 

[mccloud]

Looks to be in good shape, so if it were mine and I wanted to use it, I would use C-clamps - carefully, with blocks on both sides, to pull the rib tip back into contact with the inwale, then drill a 1/16" pilot hole and drive a ring nail, or two, thru the canvas, thru the rib tip, into the inwale. If the deck is in the way a bar clamp ought to allow you to pull the sides together. Tom McCloud

 

[Slackwater]

West Sytems Epoxy?

Tom, thanks for the advice.

I have seen the ring shank nails on canoe restoration sites but I was not sure how well they would hold. I trust that your experience says they should do the job and that is probably what I will do for most of the separated areas.

The area by the front seat where the gunnel has sagged seems it might need more reinforcement to keep it in line after I lift it back up

A friend does some wooden boat work and has suggested using 2 #6 flat head screws per rib and clamping using West Systems epoxy. I have never seen any posts regarding the use of epoxy. I know the bond would be very strong and permanent but I am wondering if there would need to be more flexibility or could have some other down side.

The gunnels by the seat take a lot of stress from the seat mountings so I am fence sitting about using this method at least for this area.

Does anyone have any experience or advice using epoxy?

 

[mccloud]

Lots of us use epoxy during a restoration, but not in the way you describe, for example in reinforcing cracked rib tips, but we don't glue the tip to the inwale. I suspect the problem you see occurred because straight iron nails were used in construction. Unless the inwale itself is rotten, ring nails will hold the rib tips in very nicely. I've seen screws used, but they are not authentic, and not necessary. I've never seen a gunwale deform next to a seat, so have difficulty understanding what has happened there. Tom McCloud

 

[Greg Nolan]

Further, should future repair or refurbishment of the gunwale or ribs in this area be needed, epoxy only create difficulties. You should keep the next 25-50 years in mind as you do things now.

 

[Rollin Thurlow]

You want to use bronze ring nails, size 1" x #14, two per rib, nail thru the canvas and the planking into the rail. Hold some kind of weight or backing iron on the inside of the rail when you are doing the nailing , otherwise the rail will just bounce when you try to hammer the nails home and bad things will happen Predill with a 1/16" drill bit.
Assuming the inside rial is in good condition and not split or rotten, the rail nails will have tremendous holding power. Once the rail is in place you will not have to worry about the seat distoring the rail.
Screws would also have great holding power but the taper on the heads act like a wedge when they are drawn up tight. That is not a problem on most woods but with the soft cedar planking and ribs, the wedged screw head will just pull through the wood, the wood will split and you will end up with the same kind of problem again and the ribs and planking will be in worse shape.

 

[Slackwater]

Thanks

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to give such good advice.

It looks like I will be using the bronze ring shank nails. I probably would have decided to pre-drill but the tip about using a backing iron sounds like a great idea I might have found out the hard way.

It looks like I should be able to get get the canoe in the water in a few weeks. I am pretty excited, my dad and I used this canoe together for a few years but he passed on when I was nine. To have it shipped out and get it fixed up to use with my son is something I have been thinking about for a long time.

Thanks again for helping out.

 

[Slackwater]

Raising gunnel height / Pilot hole for #14 ring shank nail - double check

I took a really close look at the area where the gunnel had drooped down. It looks like at some point the gunnel was nailed in at this lower position (no idea why) and the nails were not bent down from a weight put on it as I had thought.

So, considering the gunnels and ribs were already loose I separated them just enough to use a Dremmel tool to cut the nails flat to the ribs and then slide the nail tips out of the gunnel side.

The gunnel can now be easily raised to the original height and I will clamp it and nail it in place using using silicon bronze 1" #14 ring shank nails like you guys suggested.

I just want to double check the diameter of the drill bit for the pilot hole. The nail shank diameter for a #14 should be 0.083" and a 1/16 drill bit is 0.0625". A 3/64 is around half diameter at 0.046875" and I have heard that this is an option to get maximum hold but I am worried about splitting.

I'll mic the nails and test in some similar scrap but I would like to hear about anyone's experience with this.

Thanks,

 

[Rollin Thurlow]

Use the 1" nails only if you are nailing thru the planking and rib both. If you are nailing directly to the rib use a 7/8" nail. Assuming your rail is spruce, a soft wood, you really only need to predill the rib and the planking to help prevent them from splitting. A larger 3/32" bitt would be good for that but just for the ribs and planking.
For prediling in the rail, if its soft wood, if its really needed at all, the 1/16" bit will be fine.