Old Town gunnel screws.

[dhansen]

Most Old Town canoes I see have the gunnels attached with screws driven from the outside in. The Molitors and some OTCA canoes I've seen have a few screws from the outside in at the decks but the remainder go from the inside out. Is there a "rule" Old Town used to decide which way the screws were driven?

TIA!

 

[Benson Gray]

The later Molitors (made in 1965 and later) have unusually wide outside rails in place of thwarts. Most of the screws are from the inside out except at the ends where they need to go from the outside in. Rub rails on all models are also secured this way. The early Molitors (made in the 1920s and 1930s) commonly had the outside rails held on by small nails as shown in the links below. Other model canoes with fancy "D" shaped outwales like this were also held on with nails. I don't recall ever seeing an Otca with the outside rails screwed on from the inside out. Let me know if this doesn't answer your question,

Benson

AA grade Old Town Molitor model in original condition from 1921

This is an AA grade Old Town Molitor model in original condition from 1921. It has closed gunwales and pocked ribs like a Morris.

forums.wcha.org

Old Town Canoe Molitor Model from 1922

This is an example of an seventeen foot long Molitor model in AA grade from the Old Town Canoe Company that was built in 1922 with open gunwales.

forums.wcha.org

 

[dhansen]

Thanks Benson. I should have been more specific rather than asking a very generalized question about screw orientation.

I passed on my 1917 16' HW in CS grade to a friend who was keen to have a go at it. Along the way someone had replaced the outer spruce gunnels with mahogany fastened with screws entirely from the OUTSIDE in. In contemplating replacing this mahogany with the original spruce he began wondering about the screw orientation because his modern Molitor and his 1980 OTCA both have screws IN at the ends and OUT through the remainder of the canoe.

So, the question is, what screw orientation would you expect to find on a 1917 HW? (Or could they have been fastened with nails back then)?

Most of the Old Town canoes I have seen, including my 1953 HW, seem to have gunnels fastened only from the OUTSIDE in. (Excluding our Molitors and his 1980 OTCA.) You might also take a look at a 1942ish OTCA in the current classifieds that might have wide outside gunnels attached like on a Molitor. https://www.woodencanoe.org/classifieds/1942--17'-canvas--old-town-otca

 

[Benson Gray]

My guess is that an HW in CS grade from 1917 would originally have all screws securing the outside gunwale from the outside in. I just searched my photographic archive for evidence of any other models (other than the Molitor) with the inside out outwale screws and found none. The 1942 Otca in the classifieds was modified for sailing after it left the factory and appears to have unusually wide outwales. This was common in sailing canoes that were used in the ocean as that one clearly was. My guess is that the screws were reversed when the outwales were replaced.

Can you provide the serial number of your friend's 1980 Otca? It would be interesting to see if the build record has any indication of why the screws might have been reversed. These canoes were hand made so there will occasionally be differences due to human errors. The other obvious question is what style of outwale attachment does your friend prefer. Ultimately, it is their canoe to restore in any way that they like. Good luck,

Benson

 

[dhansen]

As for my friends 1980 OTCA, I am now remembering that the serial numbers were not fully readable. I am not sure if the previous owner told him it was 1980 or if there are enough numbers present to determine the year built. The decks on it are not the classic OTCA style but just the standard OT type. (I believe I've seen the same on other late built OTCA canoes). It may very well be that the outer gunnels had been replaced and the person doing that work chose to put the screws from the inside out. (Those outer gunnels are not extra wide either).

In the end you gave me the simple answer I was expecting, outside in. The two OTCAs I referred to were red herrings that clouded my deductions. All is good, sort of, in the world. Thanks as usual for doing what you do.

 

[Benson Gray]

Yes, an Otca from 1980 would typically have short decks and a hull identification number (HIN) on the starboard stern. The long decked Otcas were last shown in the 1956 catalog. The HIN will provide another way to date and identify a canoe. Good luck with the restorations,

Benson