Possible Old Town #16-16652
- Thread starter BRWWKG
- Start date
Greg Nolan
enthusiast
The Old Town canoe with serial number 16652 is an 18' HW canoe; the Carlton with that number is and 18.' So it would appear that your canoe was made by some other company, or the serial number has not been read correctly -- they can be hard to decipher sometimes. Have you compared the numbers at both ends of the canoe? Sometimes photographing the number makes reading it easier. In any event, a few photos of the canoe might help others here identify its maker.
This is a quandry and pictures might help as Greg mentioned. The Old Town with serial number 116652 is 17 feet long and the Kennebec with number 16652 is 16 feet long from 1922. However, the model column is marked "KS" which may mean the fancy "K Special" with long decks and wide thwarts that was last listed in their 1917 catalog, the "Kineo Special" model that was first listed in their 1924 catalog, or something else entirely. Neither of these two canoes had the low shear line of an Old town Guide model so it may have been cut down during a prior repair. Is there any evidence of long decks with wide thwarts or ordinary decks and thwarts with short rail caps?
Benson
Benson
Thanks guys,
The decks are long gone as I said and there is not enough left of the rail ends to see how long the decks were. It does have the low profile of a guide. Appears to have had a keel. The number is correct and the same on both ends. An OT canoe of that number would be an early one however the thwarts appear more modern in profile (flatish top and bottom) and the seats also are the more modern flatish profile, they also have the cane held in with the reed around the perimiter. There are the diamond headed bolts present. All of that could be replacements though. The other thing that dosen't quite fit is the numbers on the stem tops are of a smaller size than I usually see on an Old Town. The canoe has been in the owner's shed for decades. I'm trying get him to give it up so I can bring it back to life.
The decks are long gone as I said and there is not enough left of the rail ends to see how long the decks were. It does have the low profile of a guide. Appears to have had a keel. The number is correct and the same on both ends. An OT canoe of that number would be an early one however the thwarts appear more modern in profile (flatish top and bottom) and the seats also are the more modern flatish profile, they also have the cane held in with the reed around the perimiter. There are the diamond headed bolts present. All of that could be replacements though. The other thing that dosen't quite fit is the numbers on the stem tops are of a smaller size than I usually see on an Old Town. The canoe has been in the owner's shed for decades. I'm trying get him to give it up so I can bring it back to life.
The images attached to http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?5106&p=27006#post27006 show some of the smaller numbers from a similar Kennebec stem if that helps. The thwarts, seats, and diamond headed bolts sound like replacements.
Benson
Benson
My guess is that you may have the Kennebec canoe with number 16652. This is a 16 foot long "KS" model as shown on page 180 of volume three in the Kennebec ledgers. It was planked by Polgorskoy on September 22nd, 1922. The canvas covering and first filler coat were applied by Tuttle on September 30th, 1922. Thibodeau applied the second filler coat on October 20th, 1922. It was railed by Grant on June 23rd, 1923. The original color was green. It shipped on June 23rd, 1923 to location 23-499. This location is probably an order number but we don't currently have enough information to identify it.
Scans of these build records can be found by following the links at the attached thumbnail images below. These original Kennebec records are reproduced through the courtesy of the Maine State Museum.
The microfilms and scans of these records were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) as you probably know well. I hope that you will join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-the-wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://store.wcha.org/WCHA-New-Membership.html to join.
It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe. Now you can decide if "KS" stood for "K Special," "Kineo Special," Kennebec sponson, Kennebec sailing, or something else. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions. Good luck with the restoration,
Benson
Scans of these build records can be found by following the links at the attached thumbnail images below. These original Kennebec records are reproduced through the courtesy of the Maine State Museum.
The microfilms and scans of these records were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) as you probably know well. I hope that you will join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-the-wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://store.wcha.org/WCHA-New-Membership.html to join.
It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe. Now you can decide if "KS" stood for "K Special," "Kineo Special," Kennebec sponson, Kennebec sailing, or something else. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions. Good luck with the restoration,
Benson
Attachments
So.. another canoe rescued. I have it out of the shed and in my possesion now. In the light of day it does have the upward turn to the ends. Shows evidence of long decks, (about 21" from start to tip, How long are they supposed to be?) and the thwarts may not be modern. Also shows nail holes on the surviving rail top ends for about 24" rail caps.The ribs look good, so new rails, decks, stem ends, canvas and finish. Pictures attached if I can figure out how.Fix 'er right up.
The Kennebec "K Special" had 48 inch decks as shown in the pages attached below from the 1917 catalog. The "Kineo Special" came later and had the more traditional short Kennebec decks and rail caps. More information about these canoes can be found in the Kennebec catalogs at http://store.wcha.org/The-Historic-...pany-Catalog-Collection-Version-2-CD-ROM.html in the Historic collection. Good luck,
Benson
Benson
Attachments
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