Penn Yan Rainbow RC515 Outside Stem dimensions and Seat Questions

[Sandon or Sandy]

I am going to be restoring this Penn Yan Rainbow, RC515. Overall, it is in good condition. I know I will need to work on the tips of the gunnels and probably a couple of backside rib repairs.

1. Stems: I don't have the dimensions for the original stems. I can see from reading, mainly Howie's posts, that there are around 1/2 x 7/8. Is this correct? I will be bending out of some air-dried White Oak, probably, as I have some.

2. Keel: There was one originally. My thoughts were not to replace the keel for my own paddling preference. (I know it's my boat and my choice)

3. Seats: I'd like to know how the original seats were made. The stern seat has holes drilled through a groove. The bow seat has holes drilled through, but outside of a groove. I am curious as to what was the original design - grooved with splines or just weaved through the holes.

4. I know from the serial number that this boat was built between 1948 and 1960. Does anyone have any thoughts on a more accurate year it may have been produced?

5. Paint will probably be Penn Yan Red and I feel I will need a design.

Thank you,

Sandy

 

[Howie]

The original seats likely used machine made cane webbing - so the grooves are original and held the cane webbing. What likely happened is that the cane broke, and rather than replacing the webbing they decided to add the holes and weave the cane seat by hand. So you have 3 choices: plug the holes and replace the cane webbing, plug up the grooves and cane by hand using the holes, or make new seats. And if the latter you need to choose to use machine made webbing or hand caned webbing. If it was me it'd be a no brainer - seats are easy to make if you have a table saw, and I'm not a fan of the machine made cane and would much prefer to weave the webbing by hand. Also it's much much easier to make the seats with holes rather than machining in the grooves.

The Rainbow is a really nice canoe BTW...

 

[Sandon or Sandy]

Howie, thank you very much for the quick response. I have seen your posts specifically on the Penn Yan Rainbows. I am probably gonna retain the original seat frames. The wood is good. I got the approximate dimensions on the stems from your post as well. So thank you very much for posting that as well. The forum is a nice resource.

 

[Howie]

You betcha! And I agree, this forum is great. I've learned so much...

I'm wondering... Take a very close look at the channels in the seats. If someone wasn't very careful when they removed the old webbing and binder they may well have damaged the channel enough that it's unusable. The key to removing the old seat is to use hot water or steam to loosen the glue used to hold the binder cane in place, and then carefully remove the cane without damaging the channel. And even steam/hot water won't work if someone used a high strength glue like Tightbond. If the channel width isn't consistent and/or the proper width then you may have a hard time pressing the binder in place. I just had to chuck seats from an OT Yankee for exactly that reason. Plus I'm wondering if you'll be able to fill in the holes in the front seat well enough to like the results.

But whatever you do, have fun with it!

 

[Rob Stevens]

As Dave and Ben have said here (https://forums.wcha.org/threads/pressed-seat-removal-lacing-replacement.19851/#post-104503 ), secure the joints. One option that can save a lot of work is flipping the seats and re-cane. You might want to fill the spline groove, or not.

 

[Gary]

Hi Sandy, thank you for posting this, what a beautiful canoe! I love the lines and the extended curve of the ends. Looking forward to seeing updates of your progress and the finished version of this amazing canoe.
Gary

 

[Worth Gretter]

Regarding the stems, I have two suggestions:
1) Don't taper or bevel the stems until you have steam bent them, because if they split when you bend them, then all the tapering and beveling work is wasted.
2) If you have trouble bending them, then laminate them. Just cut 2 slits in the piece of wood, most of the way back (except for the straight part that sits on the ribs), steam bend it, then epoxy the slits.

 

[Sandon or Sandy]

Thank you Worth! Good Advice.