Old town sailing rudder and leeboard hardware

[Purplepig]

I just brought home a 17 foot Old Town Otca canoe that has some fittings for sailing. The canoe # is 172304 and was sold to Staff Jennings in March 1963. Along with the canoe came a mast and two booms for a sail AND two pieces of brass hardware (gudgeons?) riveted into the stern for attaching a rudder but that’s it. I am handy with wood and can make the rudder and lee boards but I sure would like to have access to the hardware for attaching the rudder and leeboard to the canoe. Some of the hardware (e.g., pintels and rudder hold downs) is available from Duckworks but it is stainless steel and I’m worried that the pins won’t be sized right for the original gudgeons.

Does anybody know of a source for rudder and lee board hardware that will work? If not, I'm planning to manufacture the pintel from brass strap stock and bolts in the welding course I'm taking.

In addition, the gudgeons placement require that the top pintel drop in but the bottom pintel has to swing up into the gudgeon. I gather that the pintel strap has to be loose enough to pivot on the rudder and then lock in with a cotter key or bolt.

Any insight to these questions would be greatly appreciated.

Paul Whitney
Tigard, Oregon

 

[Mark Adams]

I think Ross Bros has some on eBay right now. They are a bit spendy, but the leeboard fittings would be nice to have.

 

[Purplepig]

Wow someone actually read my questions. Thanks for the response.

As suggested, I checked Ebay for gudgeon and pintel hardware and didn't find any. There was a listing for ring-stem deck hardware but that's not what i need. Yes the two ring stems at $65 are spendy.

 

[Mark Adams]

I suspect Bob Ross will chime in here pretty soon. If I remember correctly, the ebay listing had most, if not all, of what you are looking for. Should he not have it any longer, I think Bob Lavurtue of Springfield Fan Centerboard makes reproductions of it all. I also can take pics of the rig I have and pass them along.

here is the auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sailing-Canoe-H...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item414d5383d6

 

[Purplepig]

Mark,

Thanks for the ebay site. The pictures of the hardware are the best I have seen to date - so much better than the drawings in the Old Town catalogues. I can start to see how the rigging is set up. Especially informative is the notion that one of the pintels is actually a removeable pin. That explains a lot. An even closer shot of the pintels would certainly be helpful. Thanks for the offer.

I'll give Ross Bros a call to see if I can just get the pintels.

Thanks again - so much.

BTW, I tried to call Bob Lavurtue and got a recording that his number is no longer in service. Do you know where he is these days?

Paul Whitney

 

[Roger Young]

Paul:
If you take a look in the Forum chat on "Canoe Sailing", there is a thread started by Pat Chapman on 07/05/09 which has some photos of the pintles on OT rudders, especially the removeable top one with cotter key. These might assist you. My own is a 1949 HW; it might not be the same for your canoe. Benson has a lot of details on the different rudder variations over the years.

Roger

 

[Mike Heines]

Bristol Bronze

Search Bristol Bronze with your favorite browser. He has most of what you need.

 

[Benson Gray]

The current phone number for Bob Lavertue of Springfield Fan Centerboard is (413) 547-8364 and the mailing address is 456 Fuller Street, Ludlow, Massachusetts 01056. His castings are great. My experiences with Bristol Bronze have been considerably less positive. The pages at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?t=4664 and http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?t=1469 here as well as http://dragonflycanoe.com/otacc/ and http://canoesailingmagazine.com/index.php/CONTINUOUS/Old-Town-Rig-Sailing-Development.html externally might also help.

Benson

 

[Purplepig]

Hey you guys are great! Your comments are most informative and helpful. I might get this old girl under sail yet. Ross Brothers has the hardware I need and I learned that they are pintails and not pintels (thanks for not giggling). I will definitely look for the previous thread and pictures. The pictures are MOST helpful. I will be back with detailed questions about the sail details.

Thanks again, I am impressed.

Paul

 

[Benson Gray]

I learned that they are pintails and not pintels (thanks for not giggling).

Todd Bradshaw's book "Canoe Rig - The Essence and the Art " is usually considered the authoritative source for most sailing canoe information. He calls them pintles and gudgeons. Chapter ten covers steering from pages 161 to 187 with many excellent diagrams. The ISBN number is 0-937822-57-4. This is available from http://woodencanoe.org/catalog/prod...d=436&osCsid=c304904014d227569bf3bbd578a5bce0 and elsewhere. Maybe you can start giggling.

Benson

 

[Mark Adams]

Canoe Rig is a must have! Not only will it have everything you need to know about sail rigs, but it is just a flat cool book in its own right!

 

[Purplepig]

Canoe Rigging sounds like what I need. I'll get it.

Thanks again for all the help, I'd be lost and guessing without it. It is hoped I'll learn something in my endeavor that will be helpful to someone else faced with a similar challenge.

Paul

 

[Todd Bradshaw]

I believe a "pintail" is a duck..... (though I know a heck of a lot less about ducks than I do about boats). The part of a rudder system is a "pintle" - though they aren't just for boat rudders as shown here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pintle

 

[budongman]

17 ft Otca Sailer

I thought you might like a photo of my 1966 Old Town 17 ft. Otca sailing canoe. It has all original sailing spars, rigging, rudder, leeboards, container of repairs items, three Old Town Beaver-tail paddles, decals and shipping cartons. I had to repair the ends and repaint the hull with factory green paint and thankfully the interior was original and needed a light sanding and refinish.
The small photo was taken at the Madisonville Wooden Boat Show in 1997. Notice two cartons on the grass.
Bud

 

[mainesail]

Rudder ID Help

Hi,

I've got a pair of very fine OT mahogany leeboards that I'm about to list on ebay as well as a mahogany rudder that is unlike any I've seen, about 29" long with a nearly vertical leading edge. It has two SS modern Schaefer 1/4" pintals in the same plane on upper leading edge and a steering bar fitted at top. I'd appreciate anyone taking the time to look at a pic or two of the rudder and assist in ID. Thanks, Will email is: mainesail113 at yahoo dot com

 

[Robert P. Ross]

Could you post a photo of the rudder? Also Paul I do have pintle and gudgeons readily available. I have special pricing for WCHA members.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280498406717


Robert P. Ross
Ross Bros.
PO Box 60277
Florence, MA 01062
413.320.2306

www.RossBros.com

 

[mainesail]

Hi Guys, Thanks for your help with an ID. Will

 

[Benson Gray]

Sail rigs would occasionally be mounted on square ended canoes with a small flat transom so my guess is that this is probably for one of those. Good luck with the sale,

Benson