I'd like to add a rudder to a 1950's Old Town sailing canoe. I have 2 bronze gudgeons from a seller of parts foe vintage canoes. These don't slide on to the aea of the stern where they need. Should they be forced on, or are they the wrong size? and how are they attached? Rivets? Screws? through the skin of the canoe? I'm new at this! Thanks.
1950's Old Town Sailing Canoe Attaching Gudgeons
- Thread starter Alfred J
- Start date
Dave Osborn
LIFE MEMBER
Welcome, Alfred!
You may need to open them up a little. Maybe a wedge of wood and a mallet to force them apart to fit. Might also need some heat to soften the brass. Not sure. Never had to open any up. The should be tight though without flopping around.
I’ve seen them fastened with rivets and screws. A look at your gudgeons should show you the way. If there is a countersunk hole, a screw would go there. If no countersink, then a rivet. The rivets can be made from a 3/16” diameter copper rod from the hardware store. Cut to length, then with a clinching iron for a backing the copper can be peened easily with a hammer. Peen both sides.
You may need to open them up a little. Maybe a wedge of wood and a mallet to force them apart to fit. Might also need some heat to soften the brass. Not sure. Never had to open any up. The should be tight though without flopping around.
I’ve seen them fastened with rivets and screws. A look at your gudgeons should show you the way. If there is a countersunk hole, a screw would go there. If no countersink, then a rivet. The rivets can be made from a 3/16” diameter copper rod from the hardware store. Cut to length, then with a clinching iron for a backing the copper can be peened easily with a hammer. Peen both sides.
Dave Osborn
LIFE MEMBER
Yes right through a perfectly good waterproof hull! I like to add some bedding compound underneath them.
If the canoe has outside stems then you can avoid going through the canvas as shown below on a canoe from the 1950s. Good luck,
Benson
Last edited:
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
HI Alfred,
As Dave said, gudgeons are fastened such that they require holes right through the hull when the canoe (like yours) has no outside stems. To be secure they must be fastened through the inside stem so it is important to ensure the style is right for your canoe. Gudgeons have been made in a variety of forms, but the Old Town version is made so that they can attach firmly to either an inside or an outside stem. The type shown in Benson's photo is typical for Old Town. Make sure yours are like this, or otherwise just make sure the rivets will fall within the limits of the inside stem, and make sure the fasteners fit tightly within their holes - no wiggle room. Finally, as Dave said, get some bedding compound in there to help keep the water out.
As an example, the photo here shows several styles of gudgeons from another maker - some of the holes in these would fall beyond the inside stem of your canoe (the longest ones are 3.25" long). Surely you wouldn't be using any of these, but this just illustrates some of the variety that's out there. Hopefully your gudgeons are made to fit a typical cedar-canvas canoe.
Hope this helps - Michael
As Dave said, gudgeons are fastened such that they require holes right through the hull when the canoe (like yours) has no outside stems. To be secure they must be fastened through the inside stem so it is important to ensure the style is right for your canoe. Gudgeons have been made in a variety of forms, but the Old Town version is made so that they can attach firmly to either an inside or an outside stem. The type shown in Benson's photo is typical for Old Town. Make sure yours are like this, or otherwise just make sure the rivets will fall within the limits of the inside stem, and make sure the fasteners fit tightly within their holes - no wiggle room. Finally, as Dave said, get some bedding compound in there to help keep the water out.
As an example, the photo here shows several styles of gudgeons from another maker - some of the holes in these would fall beyond the inside stem of your canoe (the longest ones are 3.25" long). Surely you wouldn't be using any of these, but this just illustrates some of the variety that's out there. Hopefully your gudgeons are made to fit a typical cedar-canvas canoe.
Hope this helps - Michael
Thanks, MIchael, for the tip about fastening the gudgeons through the inside stem. The gudgeons we have are from Robert Ross, and they look like the ones in Benson's photo. They also are the same shape as the ones on the 1930's Old Town canoe which is a part of the fleet here. Other than being a little tight, they seem OK. I am gratified by the generous sharing of precious experience and knowledge that I have stumbled into here. Many thanks.
